Welcome to MacForumz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

CL: "The Portal Issue"

 
Goto page 1, 2, 3
   Macintosh computer (Home) -> Adventure RSS
Next:  CL: OpenGL Client  
Author Message
Helpful GM

External


Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 170



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:56 am
Post subject: CL: "The Portal Issue"
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>games>adventure (more info?)

Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?

I confess that I've skimmed or skipped much of the conversation, which
seems to mostly revolve around pro-/anti- Klur/PM/PMF flame-fests and,
to be honest, isn't very interesting reading. ("No offense." ;)

I don't need paragraphs of "I've been playing for 5 yrs" and "I never
complain, so my POV is more valid" or any of that, I'd just like someone
who feels they have a good grasp of all angles of the issue to give
their best shot at a bulleted-list version of what they think the
various sides think, both pro & con, about the portals.

(If you want to stick a "personally, I think that..." section at the
end, that's ok, too. But please keep it separate from the "easy to read
managerial summary." I know that some of you think I should work harder
that this stuff, but the fact is, I'm not going to read any post longer
than 50 lines or any paragraph longer than 2 sentences on this issue,
cuz the bickering and rhetoric tire me, so everyone else can submit
their thoughts to the trusted person that you feel can best summarise
everyone's POV. If it makes you feel better, you can flame me for
slacking, but I doubt I'll read those, either, unless you're at least
half as good a flamer as Outcast was ;)

Thanks!

Helpful "damn, I miss The General...!" GM

--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
Everything here is my personal opinion, do with it what you will.

"[T]he idea of a game with people nicer than in CL makes me wanna puke."
-Michael

 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Kiriel DSol

External


Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <HelpfulGM-E702FE.18564420102003.RemoveThis@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:

 > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?

I haven't been playing much lately, but here's the gist as I've been
able to understand. It may be a bit outdated.

Klur/PMF's point of view:
IC- The portals can't be trusted- they're probably provided by bad
people to encourage us to do bad things or be lazy or something like that
OOC- Portals let people do things easier, easier = bad for the game
Cynic's view- Portals will allow other exiles to do things easier and
this makes it easier to accomplish things. They prefer it be harder to
accomplish things so they don't have competition for spots like the
pitch den

Portal for convenience users point of view:
IC- The portals are a gift from the gods and should be used for the
betterment of Puddleby. As long as people are cooperative about the use
of them, there's no reason not to use them effectively
OOC- There are many things in the game which require too large a time
commitment for many to enjoy properly. The portals allow users of them
to short circuit the limits placed on certain areas which makes trips
shorter and more efficient, giving even those with limited clanning time
a chance at things
Cynic's view- People just want things to be easier and faster- the
portals circumvent the typical limits that are designed into certain
areas

Keep the portal in the cloud point of view:
IC- The cloud is cool, getting access is a pain. Dragging the portal to
far off places benefits the higher level folk at the expense of folks
who would rather hunt in the cloud
OOC- It's one thing to borrow the portals for special occasions if you
arrange for special access to the cloud, but don't just drag it off with
no notice
Cynic's view- The portals are a very powerful device and to limit their
use to the cloud is not using them to their full potential, but folks
who want to leave them in the cloud probably wouldn't make much use of
the portals elsewhere

My personal view:
IC- Portals are a gift from the gods, use them wisely and
cooperatively, but use them for the betterment of Puddleby. Better
access to exploring and hunting is good for Puddleby.
OOC- The GMs created the portals, I think it's silly to say that we
shouldn't use the technology effectively and plain rude to interfere in
the use of the portals when people have made their best effort to give
notice and alternatives. Saying that somehow teleport stones are
acceptable and portals are is just hypocrisy
Cynic's view- I don't play barely at all anymore, so perhaps I should
leave the arguing to those who do :)

-SWC Kiriel D'Sol

-- Ye have enemies? Good, good- that means ye've stood up for
something, sometime in thy life.... -Elminster of Shadowdale<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Maeght1

External


Since: Oct 05, 2003
Posts: 27



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <HelpfulGM-E702FE.18564420102003.RemoveThis@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:

 > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?

The portal "issue" is that portal use is currently governed either by
power of possession or by tacit convention. You either take it or let
people use it. (Note that "use" here means use for the duration of an
expedition/hunt.)

Klur has indicated that he will gather resources and exercise his
defacto veto power to prevent or disable use he does not approve of.

Most everyone else not allied with Klur who has an opinion about the
portal objects to that. (Pure speculation on my part but I've asked
around and listened.)

We can respond either by not using as we intend, or by attempting to
prevent Klur's intervention.

Either way, Klur wins.

- Maeght<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Taryn

External


Since: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 34



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote in message news:<HelpfulGM-E702FE.18564420102003.TakeThisOut@sea-read.news.verio.net>...
 > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?

No matter where the portals are placed, or how they are used, some
people feel that they are losing something, and some people feel that
they are gaining something. Those that are gaining something don't
care about the feelings of those who are losing something -- and vice
versa. No one has yet come up with a way that everyone feels they are
(net) gaining something.

 > "[T]he idea of a game with people nicer than in CL makes me wanna puke."
 > -Michael

Except apparently Michael wins either way. :)

Taryn.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Helpful GM

External


Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 170



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <kirielspam-3FDBDC.19325120102003@localhost>,
Kiriel D'Sol <kirielspam.DeleteThis@windsofdawn.org> wrote:

 > In article <HelpfulGM-E702FE.18564420102003.DeleteThis@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
 > Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
  > > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?

 > I haven't been playing much lately, but here's the gist as I've been
 > able to understand. It may be a bit outdated.

[snip]

Kind-a how I saw it, but it's good to see player confirmation.

(Even though it was longer than 50 lines, it was concise & to the point,
thanks! :) I'll keep checking in case anyone wants to add-to or correct
your post...)

--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
Everything here is my personal opinion, do with it what you will.

"[T]he idea of a game with people nicer than in CL makes me wanna puke."
-Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Para

External


Since: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 11



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Helpful GM wrote:

 > (Even though it was longer than 50 lines, it was concise & to the point,
 >
 >thanks! :) I'll keep checking in case anyone wants to add-to or correct
 >your post...)
 >
 >
I'll just add that I agree with Kiriel's summary of the issues and her
own take on the situation. I thought she nicely captured the different
perspectives.

Para<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Michael10

External


Since: Jun 26, 2003
Posts: 137



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:41 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:

 > Thanks!
 >
 > Helpful "damn, I miss The General...!" GM

Short version:

PM is trying to control how we use the portals for XXXX reason (they
keep changing what it is, not that anyone really cares why).

The way they do it (using a mystic with a teleport stone) makes it
impossible to stop from happening. He might only be a weak mystic, but
to me he might as well be immortal since I cant touch him.

Given the way the world works, its MUCH easier for PM to make the portal
useless or undo your work than it is for you to do the work in the first
place.

No one but PM seems to enjoy this, but there isnt really anything we can
do about it.

Many are sick of it, and have given up caring about the porals. Its
already caused several parties to be stranded places because of the 10
snell insta move to a place you cant get to in the middle of lava. If
you cant count on the portal being there when you want to go home then
whats the point?

Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Connie Crete

External


Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 4



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Kiriel D'Sol <kirielspam.DeleteThis@windsofdawn.org> wrote in message news:<kirielspam-3FDBDC.19325120102003@localhost>...
 > In article <HelpfulGM-E702FE.18564420102003.DeleteThis@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
 > Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
 >
  > > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?
 >
 > Keep the portal in the cloud point of view:
 > IC- The cloud is cool, getting access is a pain. Dragging the portal to
 > far off places benefits the higher level folk at the expense of folks
 > who would rather hunt in the cloud

It be neutral territory and tha portals speeds rescues. KI be
territory folks fresh off tha boat don't need ta be goin, yet havin
one end o tha portal in town implies it be safeish.

 > OOC- It's one thing to borrow the portals for special occasions if you
 > arrange for special access to the cloud, but don't just drag it off with
 > no notice

Search "expanding player base" and think of how much fun it would be
if within your 1 mo trial you had to find 10k for a lyfe cure and how
likely you would be to stay in the lands. After investing enough time
to make it to 2* and getting lyfed, one is less likely to go to either
Resettus or PayPal.

 > Cynic's view- The portals are a very powerful device and to limit their
 > use to the cloud is not using them to their full potential, but folks
 > who want to leave them in the cloud probably wouldn't make much use of
 > the portals elsewhere

True cynic's point of view: as soon as KI2 opens up neither the
explorers nor the rw will care about the portals unless they
facilitate travel to the new hunting ground.

Try thinking about the "portal issue" as the "portal plot line." Then
search the requests for "pvp" and "affect the world."


Connie and PWC for Connie
Beer!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Maeght1

External


Since: Oct 05, 2003
Posts: 27



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:13 am
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <900f09e.0310202325.4a4d2c5c.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>,
taryncl.TakeThisOut@attbi.com (Taryn) wrote:

 > Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote in message
 > news:<HelpfulGM-E702FE.18564420102003.TakeThisOut@sea-read.news.verio.net>...
  > > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?
 >
 > No matter where the portals are placed, or how they are used, some
 > people feel that they are losing something, and some people feel that
 > they are gaining something. Those that are gaining something don't
 > care about the feelings of those who are losing something -- and vice
 > versa. No one has yet come up with a way that everyone feels they are
 > (net) gaining something.

There is a difference. Has anyone interfered or threatened interference
with Klur et al's use of the portal?

This is the "game warden" scenario revisited.

- Maeght<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Baff

External


Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 58



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Helpful GM wrote:

 > Could someone please summarize the portal issue in a few brief sentences?

Taking out all the reasons why, this is as short as I can make it.

Unbiased:

Group A wants the portals to be used in any fashion allowed by the game
mechanics, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's intended use
of the portals.

Group B doesn't want the portals used in a way that bypasses the intended
challenges of an area.


Biased:

Group A feels that the portals are intended to make difficult areas easy and
so wish to use them to gain access to areas with the least effort possible.

Group B wishes to preserve that sense of daring adventure as illustrated in
the story that Joe wrote (in the CL manual).

Baff<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Kojiro

External


Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 25



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Unbiased:

Group A (For 'everyone') understands that sentient beings have the
right to do what they want without being harassed.

Group B (For 'Klur') thinks its OK to harass people, and is therefore
inherently wrong, as usual.

Slightly biased:

Klur is a fucktard.

- Kojiro
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Lex

External


Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 69



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:50 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 > Group B doesn't want the portals used in a way that bypasses the intended
 > challenges of an area.

I think HH wasn't intended for exiles with 2500 ranks. It's unfair to cross
it with 3-6 high level characters, since you are bypassing the intended
difficulty with all your training. The only fair thing for you to do would
be to untrain so it still takes 10-20 exiles to cross, or never cross HH
again.

Lex<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Taryn

External


Since: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 34



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Baff <baff.DeleteThis@gemmary.JUNK.com> wrote in message news:<3F94FDB3.12338731.DeleteThis@gemmary.JUNK.com>...


 > Taking out all the reasons why, this is as short as I can make it.
 >
 > Unbiased:
 >
 > Group A wants the portals to be used in any fashion allowed by the game
 > mechanics, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's intended use
 > of the portals.
 >
 > Group B doesn't want the portals used in a way that bypasses the intended
 > challenges of an area.
 >
 >
 > Biased:
 >
 > Group A feels that the portals are intended to make difficult areas easy and
 > so wish to use them to gain access to areas with the least effort possible.
 >
 > Group B wishes to preserve that sense of daring adventure as illustrated in
 > the story that Joe wrote (in the CL manual).

Just pointing out, Baff, I don't fit into either of your two groups.

Taryn.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Taryn

External


Since: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 34



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Maeght <awessels.TakeThisOut@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote in message news:<awessels-2EA097.07132521102003.TakeThisOut@news.supernews.com>...

 > Has anyone interfered ... with Klur's ... use of the portal?

Yes. After extensive dialogue with Klur, this is clear to me.

Taryn.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Hidden

External


Since: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 107



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: "The Portal Issue" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <900f09e.0310211112.75b7ea3.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
taryncl.RemoveThis@attbi.com (Taryn) wrote:

 > Maeght <awessels.RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote in message
 > news:<awessels-2EA097.07132521102003.RemoveThis@news.supernews.com>...
 >
  > > Has anyone interfered ... with Klur's ... use of the portal?
 >
 > Yes. After extensive dialogue with Klur, this is clear to me.

Elaborate.

--
HWC for Hidden <hidden.RemoveThis@noDASHop.com> <http://www.oralse.cx/>
"Carpe diem via scrotum."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CL: "The Portal Issue" 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Portal Goal? - From an OOC standpoint, what was the "goal" of the portals? Was it to give the people who complained about hunts/explorations takeing up too much time a break in hopes of keeping them from leaving? Was it to create conflict among players and in...

Portal Competition - PMF would like to sponsor a "Find the Portal on Dal'Noth" competition on Saturday, September 13. There will be an Exile Portal Search at 12 noon PDT, an Exile Portal Search and Assault at 8 PM PDT, and an Awards Ceremony with food, drink, and....

CL: Portal Challenge was fun - Just wanted to thank Pogue and friends for holding what, for me anyway, was a really fun contest. I hope more stuff like this is done! The highlight for me had to be when I was fallen behind a tree and saw Michael frantically running by in the passes....

CL portal alert - PORTAL ALERT PLEASE READ For this week's Foothills trip we will be moving the PURPLE portal to Camp Dred (and possibly beyond) for the duration of the trip. When the trip is over we will move the PURPLE portal back to Falinea's Garden. So expect the..

CL: More Portal Thoughts - Sareth asked to have the following posted to the NG, since for RL reasons he can't do it himself at the moment. ------------------------- Here I am, away from home and unable to play, and yet the issue of the portals has become so great that I find..
   Macintosh computer (Home) -> Adventure All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page 1, 2, 3
Page 1 of 3

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]