CL: Racing to third circle

 > If I was training specifically for the test and rank whoring like crazy
 > I think it could be done in about 6 months.

This is the bit I'm looking to explore with these questions; I'm
mostly trying to get my head around the "rank whoring like crazy" part
of the equation, and how things change when a new character has the
dedicated help of high level folks.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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watsongm RemoveThis @moopenguin.org (Watson GM) wrote in message news:<ab72f927.0312041631.c39b283 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
 > If you started a brand new character, and had the dedicated, full time
 > help of a both a well-rounded sixth circle fighter and an equivalently
 > powerful healer:
 >
 > 1) How long would it take you to get to be a third circle fighter?
 >
 > 2) How long should it take you?
 >
 > 3) What strategies would you use to advance as quickly as possible?

It's a bit presumptuous for me to answer, since I'm a healer, but I
can't resist. If all I wanted was to reach 3rd circle as fast as
possible, here's what I'd do:

a) Stay up as much as possible. Can't tag while fallen.

b) Don't coin: instead use my helpers as my "bank". It's more
efficient for them to coin without me, so they can just give me the
funds to stay in the most expensive library, and they can buy me stuff
like a shiny dagger.

c) Hunt spots with swarms of easily taggable, nonferalling creatures
that give vanqs and kills. Don't bother tagging hard-to-hit monsters,
that's wasting time; just let the fighter dispose of them. Stay on
the perimeter to let the creatures focus their attacks on the brick or
rod.

Taryn.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 > If you started a brand new character, and had the dedicated, full time
 > help of a both a well-rounded sixth circle fighter and an equivalently
 > powerful healer:
 >
 > 1) How long would it take you to get to be a third circle fighter?

3-3.5 Months 8 hours a day (average) during the week and 8-16 hour
days (average) on weekends

 > 2) How long should it take you?

As long as it takes, there should not be a pre-set amount of time that
it should take, or require to do anything.


 > 3) What strategies would you use to advance as quickly as possible?

Undine hut/spiders for 200+ ranks or so

Undine/DT (for faithless)/ Noids for another 50+ ranks

Noids/LP/RC/RT/DT (again, for faithless) for 200+ ranks or so

Noids/Noth/DC for another 300 ranks or so

Note: in any case where the newbie would take more than 3-4 swings to
tag something (unless nothing else had spawned, or it was the last
monster left in the area) that the offending high defense monster
should be killed by the 6th• fighter

Training order based around this strategy would be as follows:
10 bodrus
250 evus
50 atkus
100 swengus
50 evus
25 atkus
100 swengus
100 detha
—————
~685 ranks.

roughly a 8 rank per day average over 3 months (Not hard at that level
with the aforementioned support)

Taking account bonuses those trained ranks "should" equate to the
following

150 Atkus
68 (ish) Histia
116 Detha
208 (ish) Balthus
175 Regia
50 Darkus
—————
~767 ranks (with bonuses)

The character should brick rage on full balance, and mostly (if not
all the time) after one swing (with a lighter weapon, I would suggest
a longsword) and should also hit 3/4 of the time, with good timing of
course.

In case the lovely "luck" system keeps the character from passing with
these stats. a mixture of regia/darkus/evus could be done for 50-100
ranks or so (to increase killrate/atkus)

The main idea of this strategy is "Atkus first". Atkus = tags = exp =
ranks. Bottom line.


I don't even know if you could go back and look at rank gain per day
over a certain amount of time... but, if you can, Check out "Megan" 's
rankgain from about 8 months ago (when she stilL RW'd)... at one point
she was on a path very similar to the one I have described here.


Note that an 8 rank per day average is not "that hard." I was able to
keep up a 5-7 rank per day average when I had passed 4th. I was able
to maintain that til a bit before I passed 5th... (Also note that
during those days I only did 1 "good" hunt per day. with better
support/BIGGER PLAYER BASE! I could've gotten more per day)

-NB<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Oops, I also forgot TK as a hunting ground. It would be mixed in
somewhere between the "Undine/DT / Noids" catergory and kept in the
hunting loop until the end of the "Noids/LP/RC/RT/DT" phase.

-NB
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Oops, I also forgot TK as a hunting ground. It would be mixed in
somewhere between the "Undine/DT / Noids" catergory and kept in the
hunting loop until the end of the "Noids/LP/RC/RT/DT" phase.

-NB
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In article <ab72f927.0312051006.7ef77cab.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
watsongm.DeleteThis@moopenguin.org (Watson GM) wrote:

  > > If I was training specifically for the test and rank whoring like crazy
  > > I think it could be done in about 6 months.
 >
 > This is the bit I'm looking to explore with these questions; I'm
 > mostly trying to get my head around the "rank whoring like crazy" part
 > of the equation, and how things change when a new character has the
 > dedicated help of high level folks.

Be sure to treat it as a rate. Is that character really going to have
that backup 8+ hours per day?

Given that, 4 months is my guess.

- Maeght<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <761311b1.0312051607.34cc4e9.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
NightbirdCL.DeleteThis@hotmail.com (NightBird) wrote:

  > > 2) How long should it take you?

 > As long as it takes, there should not be a pre-set amount of time that
 > it should take, or require to do anything.

Nightbird and I agree on this.

(Although I'd probably have the caveat that there IS such a thing as
"too fast", in terms of "rank fountains" being bad for CL... Other than
that, though, if you want to spend all your time rushing to 3rd cirlce
and you get there faster than anyone else, "more power to you.")

--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
Everything here is my personal opinion, do with it what you will.

"[T]he idea of a game with people nicer than in CL makes me wanna puke."
-Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <HelpfulGM-F767D0.18074605122003 RemoveThis @sea-read.news.verio.net>,
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:

 > In article <761311b1.0312051607.34cc4e9 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
 > NightbirdCL RemoveThis @hotmail.com (NightBird) wrote:
 >
   > > > 2) How long should it take you?
 >
  > > As long as it takes, there should not be a pre-set amount of time that
  > > it should take, or require to do anything.
 >
 > Nightbird and I agree on this.
 >
 > (Although I'd probably have the caveat that there IS such a thing as
 > "too fast", in terms of "rank fountains" being bad for CL... Other than
 > that, though, if you want to spend all your time rushing to 3rd cirlce
 > and you get there faster than anyone else, "more power to you.")

Right, right. I don't think anybody's suggesting a hard-set minimum,
but asking what seems like an appropriate length of time.

Suppose I told you "I got to third circle in ___ (hours/months/years)."
What values would make you say, "Wow, that's fast!", what would make
you say, "Oof, that's way too long," and what sounds like about how
long you think it ought to typically take if you were designing it?

If it makes things easier, you can describe it in terms of hours of
average online time, hours of serious rank-whoring online time,
weeks/months of typical play, or whatever's most convenient.

Ann<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <061220031621145216%ann@admin.SPAMLESSclanlord.com>,
Ann GM <ann DeleteThis @admin.SPAMLESSclanlord.com> wrote:

 > In article <HelpfulGM-F767D0.18074605122003 DeleteThis @sea-read.news.verio.net>,
 > Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
 >
  > > In article <761311b1.0312051607.34cc4e9 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
  > > NightbirdCL DeleteThis @hotmail.com (NightBird) wrote:
  > >
   > > > > 2) How long should it take you?
  > >
   > > > As long as it takes, there should not be a pre-set amount of time that
   > > > it should take, or require to do anything.

  > > Nightbird and I agree on this.
  > >
  > > (Although I'd probably have the caveat that there IS such a thing as
  > > "too fast", in terms of "rank fountains" being bad for CL... Other than
  > > that, though, if you want to spend all your time rushing to 3rd cirlce
  > > and you get there faster than anyone else, "more power to you.")

 > Right, right. I don't think anybody's suggesting a hard-set minimum,
 > but asking what seems like an appropriate length of time.
 >
 > Suppose I told you "I got to third circle in ___ (hours/months/years)."
 > What values would make you say, "Wow, that's fast!", what would make
 > you say, "Oof, that's way too long," and what sounds like about how
 > long you think it ought to typically take if you were designing it?
 >
 > If it makes things easier, you can describe it in terms of hours of
 > average online time, hours of serious rank-whoring online time,
 > weeks/months of typical play, or whatever's most convenient.

3 weeks strikes me as Way-Too-Fast (play time, and I don't care how much
you play.) 3 months strikes me as "pretty quick, you must've put a lot
of effort into it." A year strikes me as "someone reaslises that there
are more fun things to do in CL than make circles", and 2 yrs strikes me
as "have you been hanging out with Phineas?!" and/or "perhaps you should
talk to Honor, he'll probably let you CLEP the test...". Anything
between 3 & 12 months of play time seems "about average" to me. 2
months sounds doable only by the most addicted-to-circles
doesn't-have-other-comittements type players.

Note: this is my understanding of "how things are." It's also my belief
that it's pretty nicely balanced in the reward-for-effort category.
That is, this is both what I think happens now and what I think should
happen. If I'm wrong about what happens now, it's still what I think
should be.

--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
Everything here is my personal opinion, do with it what you will.

"[T]he idea of a game with people nicer than in CL makes me wanna puke."
-Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <ab72f927.0312041631.c39b283 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
watsongm DeleteThis @moopenguin.org (Watson GM) wrote:

 > If you started a brand new character, and had the dedicated, full time
 > help of a both a well-rounded sixth circle fighter and an equivalently
 > powerful healer:
 >
 > 1) How long would it take you to get to be a third circle fighter?
 >

If the supporting cast of characters is sufficiently dedicated, I could
probably make 3rd circle in aproximately 2 months at the high end. Of
course, I'd have little other life to attend during that time.

 > 2) How long should it take you?
 >

Should? It SHOULD take as little time proportional to the time someone
is willing to put into it and as much time as anyone is willing to wait.
I can't see any design flaws or features to be gained by capping or
averaging this time.

 > 3) What strategies would you use to advance as quickly as possible?

What, you want MY strategies? Naw, you guys stick to making the
game...we'll stick to MinMaxing. =P

Okay seriously, I'd start by hunting easy things training Atkus to
easily tag what my "friends" could brick and the test requires. Then I'd
hunt with them as much as possible working on the "staying alive in the
test ranks" (Detha/Histia), once I got close, I'd work on the "kill
stuff fast in the test ranks" (Regia/Darkus) till I passed. (Note: The
exact places and critters are trade secrets.)

The resulting fighter would be practically useless except in controlled
group hunting, but would be able to tag most anything thereby continuing
to advance easily for quite some time.

rhdennis

(No, I didn't do it this way...I took the harder training route but
rankwhored like crazy to "keep up")<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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  > > 3) What strategies would you use to advance as quickly as possible?
 >
 > Undine hut/spiders for 200+ ranks or so
 > Undine/DT (for faithless)/ Noids for another 50+ ranks
 > Noids/LP/RC/RT/DT (again, for faithless) for 200+ ranks or so
 > Noids/Noth/DC for another 300 ranks or so


Nice/interesting list. Do others concur?

Remember, the premise is that you have a dedicated pair of friends
running a 6• fighter and a equivalently high level healer to assist
you.

Aside from loyalty and extreme patience, what qualities will be more
helpful in the fighter/healer pair?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <ab72f927.0312081223.2b50710 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
watsongm DeleteThis @moopenguin.org (Watson GM) wrote:

   > > > 3) What strategies would you use to advance as quickly as possible?
  > >
  > > Undine hut/spiders for 200+ ranks or so
  > > Undine/DT (for faithless)/ Noids for another 50+ ranks
  > > Noids/LP/RC/RT/DT (again, for faithless) for 200+ ranks or so
  > > Noids/Noth/DC for another 300 ranks or so
 >
 >
 > Nice/interesting list. Do others concur?
 >
 > Remember, the premise is that you have a dedicated pair of friends
 > running a 6• fighter and a equivalently high level healer to assist
 > you.
 >
 > Aside from loyalty and extreme patience, what qualities will be more
 > helpful in the fighter/healer pair?

Lots of free time.

- Maeght<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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watsongm RemoveThis @moopenguin.org (Watson GM) wrote in message news:<ab72f927.0312081223.2b50710 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
   > > > 3) What strategies would you use to advance as quickly as possible?
  > >
  > > Undine hut/spiders for 200+ ranks or so
  > > Undine/DT (for faithless)/ Noids for another 50+ ranks
  > > Noids/LP/RC/RT/DT (again, for faithless) for 200+ ranks or so
  > > Noids/Noth/DC for another 300 ranks or so
 >
 >
 > Nice/interesting list. Do others concur?
 >
 > Remember, the premise is that you have a dedicated pair of friends
 > running a 6? fighter and a equivalently high level healer to assist
 > you.
 >
 > Aside from loyalty and extreme patience, what qualities will be more
 > helpful in the fighter/healer pair?

I'd start in the vermine tree. You don't even need the fighter there,
just the healer with good proxi and good self-heal. Also, the newbie
would get full credit for the more numerous kills there, instead of
half credit for the vanqs in the undine hut. My experience is that
even "experienced" newbies fall often in the undine hut, and downtime
means no exp.

I'd move up to the undine hut when 1st circle fighter starts
dispatching vermine and can handle the basement of the undine hut (the
top is too slow, and would require one of the fighter/healer to also
lure). Ash Island/Dark Temple is also good, especially for the
Faithless. I have no idea about baby Noids, since it's rare that
anyone asks me to help there.

I'd agree with Noids as the step after that, but LP and RC spawn too
slowly in my opinion. I'd also say that Noth requires too much atkus
for a 2nd circle fighter, and is too dangerous (e.g. Hel'Noths). Even
if the healer has alot of horus, raising a badly fallen takes time,
and downtime means no exp. Plus, both Noth and RC are far from town,
and trip time is no exp. When Noids is clear, you can go to midpass
for a bit, especially if the healer can keep the 2nd circle fighter up
in the areas north and south.

One of the healer/fighter pair should have enough pf. Other than
that, I'd guess any 6th circle fighter would have sufficient ability.
I'd give the healer enough loovma to chain, to get the newbie places
without having to raise the newbie enroute. And the fighter enough
skea to coin-whore at other times. Either could have dentir, since
they'll be doing Noids alot.

If the 2nd circle fighter can tag without falling in Dark Chamber, I
think that'd be a good last step.

IMHO, Taryn.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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