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CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye)

 
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meph

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Since: Oct 26, 2003
Posts: 2



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:17 am
Post subject: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye)
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>games>adventure (more info?)

Jeff Ray <jeff.ray.DeleteThis@dfrc.nasa.gov> wrote:

 > For you high level players who have hit the wall:
 >
 > What would you like to see the GM's work on, that ISN'T just another
 > high level hunting area that moves the wall a little farther up? In
 > other words, if the GMs are going to achieve their goal of shifting
 > people like you away from rankwhoring, what would it take?

Coming from a near-3000 rank healer who has watched CL go from 15
average players online, to 115 average players online, back dowm to 15
average players online:

I think there needs to be some MAJOR improvements in the Clan part of
the game. The game IS called 'Clan Lord', yet you can get along just
fine without a clan, as we see many 6th circle fighters just choose
not to have one at all. In Shadowbane, yes I'm making a referral to
Shadowbane, if you're not in a guild, you pretty much cant hunt
anywhere with anyone. I feel the game needs to depend a LOT more on
being a member of a guild. This is key to getting the high level folk
to stay. Bear with me as I make another referral to Shadowbane, but
once you hit the maximum level, there isnt much to do other than PK
(something I know will never be an aspect in Clan Lord) or build an
empire. Personally I believe, though its hard with the lack of players
these days, that there should be a TON more benefits to being in a
guild than just clan experience and the 'clan house'. I find both of
those to be worthless.

Clan Lord bottom line needs more players, but before that can occur
it will need to satisfy its current inhabitants. I find it very hard
to keep paying for my account when i see all of my in-game friends
leaving or logging on only once a month. What am I paying for?
Certainly not more ranks, because I can't afford a library that gives
decent exp. I don't care much about ranks at all anymore, most high
rank people shouldn't, but there isnt really much else to care about
in the game. Clan Lord needs to pull itself out of "Rank Whore Lord"
and veer back onto the " *CLAN* Lord " part of the game. People
aren't drawn to the game as they used to be. You can buy any old
MMORPG out there and level up until you get bored. Clan Lord drew me
to it because of its sense of community. This sense has vanished. The
game NEEDS some upkeep done to it that doesnt involve new areas, new
items, or new icons. I wouldn't say another word about healer tests if
this happened. I swear, I really wouldn't!

I hope this wasnt too long, but I rarely post here so, what the hell.

-meph<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Michael Welsh

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Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 40



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 11/1/03 4:17 AM, in the "great" literary work,
5b707dd0.0311010117.55ef3656.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com, the "profound" and
"prolific" meph of chardoskate.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com articulated:

 > Clan Lord drew me
 > to it because of its sense of community. This sense has vanished.

I love the Clan Lord community. I also believe that if it were as large as
some of the other MMORPGS it would not be as nice a community. I'm
experiencing the story that Joe told in the manual now. I'm not experiencing
it in Clan Lord, but I still have a fondness for Clan Lord. I'm not sure if
I'll ever let my account lapse. Who knows? I can't really imagine anything
that would make me want to come back to regular CL play though.

--
Michael - HWC for Monolith

"I don't want PK and I can kill the majority of fighters in Clan Lord." -
Noah<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Russell Fredrickso1

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Since: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 2



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:31 am
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)" wrote:

 > I love the Clan Lord community. I also believe that if it were as large as
 > some of the other MMORPGS it would not be as nice a community.

I'm of the opinion that CL's community is as "nice" as it is due to the game
itself and the type of people that it tends to attract as opposed to the number
of people who play it. Conversely, the number of people who play it probably
*is* based on the type of people that it attracts: there are more people who
like to PK than there are people who are interested in playing out part of the
life of a character (not that these things are exclusive, but suspension of
disbelief seems rare among the PK'ers of other graphical MMORPG's that I've
met).

If CL attracts more players, I'd hope that the larger community that's seen now
would simply break into smaller ones (which isn't to say that sub-groups don't
exist, now, but there's still a fair amount of interaction between them). I
like the idea of a Clan Lord in which my character could have a home community
around which most of his activities were based but in which he could also leave
to explore the rest of the world and find other communities.

After all, it's good to want things. ;)

HWC for Valtrim

---------------------
"At night, in secret, we dream of a million members."
-- Joe's Clan Lord FAQ<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ian Ollmann

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Since: Jul 06, 2003
Posts: 168



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 1 Nov 2003, meph wrote:

 > I think there needs to be some MAJOR improvements in the Clan part of
 > the game. The game IS called 'Clan Lord', yet you can get along just
 > fine without a clan, as we see many 6th circle fighters just choose
 > not to have one at all. In Shadowbane, yes I'm making a referral to
 > Shadowbane, if you're not in a guild, you pretty much cant hunt
 > anywhere with anyone. I feel the game needs to depend a LOT more on
 > being a member of a guild. This is key to getting the high level folk
 > to stay. Bear with me as I make another referral to Shadowbane, but
 > once you hit the maximum level, there isnt much to do other than PK
 > (something I know will never be an aspect in Clan Lord) or build an
 > empire. Personally I believe, though its hard with the lack of players
 > these days, that there should be a TON more benefits to being in a
 > guild than just clan experience and the 'clan house'. I find both of
 > those to be worthless.

I think I made this point a few months ago. The problem is that clans
aren't cohesive unless there is a good reason for them to be. Why work
with other people when its easier and just as productive to run off and do
stuff solo? Shadowbane has a good reason for guilds to stick together --
fear. Without PKers or wars, Shadowbane would have every inch of its
availble surface covered with population 1 player towns. People would be
hunting its really dull hunting grounds just to pay lots of redundant tree
maintenance. Its really inefficient and more importantly dull.

The other thing the clans would need is a hierarchy. There is no point to
worrying about the clan unless some players have power over other players.
They currently do not in any real sense and I think at least 80% of the
players in CL would object strenuously to any new rules like that.
Certainly the mystics complain about their oligarchy. Shadowbane achieves
this by having official clan leaders, rank and shops to run. Senior
members of the guild can arbitrarily dismiss, demote, and otherwise abuse
the junior memners. They can enrich themselves fantastically through
corruption far beyond the capacity of ordinary people. It is of course in
the interest of the guild leader and junior members to stop them. Junior
members (the good ones) claw their way up into middle management and
maybe eventually go out on their own, sometimes after denuding their
former guild's coffers. .

 > in the game. Clan Lord needs to pull itself out of "Rank Whore Lord"
 > and veer back onto the " *CLAN* Lord " part of the game. People
 > aren't drawn to the game as they used to be. You can buy any old
 > MMORPG out there and level up until you get bored. Clan Lord drew me
 > to it because of its sense of community. This sense has vanished. The
 > game NEEDS some upkeep done to it that doesnt involve new areas, new
 > items, or new icons. I wouldn't say another word about healer tests if
 > this happened. I swear, I really wouldn't!

The community is gone because there is no need for it. CL is a
disconnected hodgepodge of individuals. Add in a liberal helping of fear
abuse, and struggle and the community will come back. You might even find
that you like almost everyone in your clan.

Because there is no pressing problem to solve that actually requires
players to work together, CL is politically dead.

Ian


---------------------------------------------------
Ian Ollmann, Ph.D. iano.TakeThisOut@cco.caltech.edu
---------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ian Ollmann

External


Since: Jul 06, 2003
Posts: 168



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith) wrote:

 > I love the Clan Lord community. I also believe that if it were as large as
 > some of the other MMORPGS it would not be as nice a community. I'm
 > experiencing the story that Joe told in the manual now. I'm not experiencing
 > it in Clan Lord, but I still have a fondness for Clan Lord. I'm not sure if
 > I'll ever let my account lapse. Who knows? I can't really imagine anything
 > that would make me want to come back to regular CL play though.

Would you come back to help defend the town if it was threatened with
destruction by Orga?

What about player controlled orga?

What about player controlled players?

Ian

---------------------------------------------------
Ian Ollmann, Ph.D. iano.RemoveThis@cco.caltech.edu
---------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Martin Kerharo

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Since: Sep 08, 2003
Posts: 4



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:20 am
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Russell Fredrickson <fredricr.TakeThisOut@cda.mrs.umn.edu> wrote in message news:<3FA5CBF4.1D4F16AE.TakeThisOut@cda.mrs.umn.edu>...
 > "Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)" wrote:
 >
  > > I love the Clan Lord community. I also believe that if it were as large as
  > > some of the other MMORPGS it would not be as nice a community.
 >
 > (...) I
 > like the idea of a Clan Lord in which my character could have a home community
 > around which most of his activities were based (...)

That's what I'm experiencing since I joined the Open Hands clan. It
changed my life, and Myria's life too. We hunt with clanmates, we get
to know them, we have projects, it's fun. Of course sometimes there is
trouble, clanmates leave or stay in library forever, projects fail or
just never get finished... But all in all it's great.

And when there are no clanmates around when we log in, we try to find
some newbies to help, or we go on some coin hunting...

--Martn the Dorf

PS: of course tools to improve clan-related activities would help. Why
not some kind of integrated Clan mailing list in CL, for instance?
Something which, when you log on, would tell you "Boris sent a message
to the clan: next clan hunt sunday 1 pm edt" for instance.
Other ideas welcome :-)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Michael Welsh

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Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 40



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:31 am
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 11/3/03 10:13 PM, in the "great" literary work,
Pine.SGI.4.40.0311031911370.160088-100000 RemoveThis @helix2.caltech.edu, the "profound"
and "prolific" Ian Ollmann of iano RemoveThis @cco.caltech.edu articulated:

 > Would you come back to help defend the town if it was threatened with
 > destruction by Orga?

When I clanned I defended the town many times.

 > What about player controlled orga?

At this point it would take more than that and I'm no fan of Pking.

 > What about player controlled players?

Not quite sure what you mean.


--
Michael HWC for Mono

"I don't care how many simpering idiots are in disagreement with me,
they're still wrong." -- Outcast<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Hidden

External


Since: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 107



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:31 am
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <BBCCA3C9.15D8C%monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com>,
"Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)" <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:

 > On 11/3/03 10:13 PM, in the "great" literary work,
 > Pine.SGI.4.40.0311031911370.160088-100000 DeleteThis @helix2.caltech.edu, the "profound"
 > and "prolific" Ian Ollmann of iano DeleteThis @cco.caltech.edu articulated:
 >
  > > Would you come back to help defend the town if it was threatened with
  > > destruction by Orga?
 >
 > When I clanned I defended the town many times.

That's not what he's asking (I assume). He's talking about an actual
threat to the safety of the town, not the impotent little invasions we
have every so often.

  > > What about player controlled players?
 >
 > Not quite sure what you mean.

"If there was an intelligent enemy capable of doing damage, and there's
something at stake, would that pique your interest?"

--
HWC for Hidden <hidden DeleteThis @noDASHop.com> <http://www.oralse.cx/>
"Carpe diem via scrotum."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Michael Welsh

External


Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 40



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 11/4/03 12:37 AM, in the "great" literary work,
hidden-CC482B.21370203112003@localhost, the "profound" and "prolific" Hidden
of hidden.TakeThisOut@noDASHop.com articulated:

 > In article <BBCCA3C9.15D8C%monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com>,
 > "Michael Welsh (AKA Monolith)" <monolith@REMOVE*THISneo.rr.com> wrote:
 >
  >> On 11/3/03 10:13 PM, in the "great" literary work,
  >> Pine.SGI.4.40.0311031911370.160088-100000.TakeThisOut@helix2.caltech.edu, the "profound"
  >> and "prolific" Ian Ollmann of iano.TakeThisOut@cco.caltech.edu articulated:
  >>
   >>> Would you come back to help defend the town if it was threatened with
   >>> destruction by Orga?
  >>
  >> When I clanned I defended the town many times.
 >
 > That's not what he's asking (I assume). He's talking about an actual
 > threat to the safety of the town, not the impotent little invasions we
 > have every so often.

I've defended the town twice when we lost. Once was a week where the random
invasions were set to once every hour instead of once a day or whatever. We
all died to death vermine. The other time was the end of the ripture war.
Those were intense times. If I were currently into Clan Lord and those
things happened it might hook me more, but I doubt it would bring me back.

   >>> What about player controlled players?
  >>
  >> Not quite sure what you mean.
 >
 > "If there was an intelligent enemy capable of doing damage, and there's
 > something at stake, would that pique your interest?"

Player controlled Orga would be the same to me. Cool, but not enough to
bring me back, not for long anyway. :-)

--
Michael HWC for Monolith

"If you are trying to be a Phelps of the World, then you probably are. :-)"
- HWC for Phelps<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ian Ollmann

External


Since: Jul 06, 2003
Posts: 168



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:37 pm
Post subject: Re: CL: What I believe the game lacks/needs (was CL: Goodbye [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Helpful GM wrote:

 > So, yeah, I guess "railroaded" in that we knew there would be an ending,
 > eventually, and what it's shape was -- but, honest to goodness, it
 > could've dragged on for a very very long time.

The thing about that war was that lost snells didn't come back. So, it was
a matter of time before we just randomly lose some and eventually find
ourselves cutoff from something important. It wasn't a 2 sided fight, just
the tightening of a ratchet.

Ian

---------------------------------------------------
Ian Ollmann, Ph.D. iano.TakeThisOut@cco.caltech.edu
---------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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