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External
Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:08 am
Post subject: CivIII: Fun today...
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>games>strategic (more info?)
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I'm in the middle of a game of CivIII, playing the Americans, and I'm up
the the Modern era. I've got most of the good Wonders (Hoover, UN,
Sistine, Leonardo's, Sun Tzu (captured from India), and I'm outproducing
everyone by a lot (and ahead a few techs at the same time).
Babylon had a lot of military to play with, and he got bored. Almost
two hundred Infantry, 48 Mech Inf., lots of little units, sitting on one
continent four squares away from one of my major cities (fairly well
isolated, but I'd prepositioned a half-dozen Transports in that city,
along with a dozen or so Marines).
So the idjit declares war because he wanted *horses*. I guess he wanted
some Cavalry to supplement those Mechs. He sank a couple of my ships,
bombed a couple of squares, and annoyed me.
So I loaded up some Marines in one Transport, popped across the strait
separating us, and took his nearest city. Then I dumped in two Armies
of Mech Infantry (four in each), one Infantry army (the first one, from
earlier in the game), along with some regular MI, Tanks, and sixteen
Artillery - and one transport full of Cavalry. Which I used to clear
off the roads from the surrounding squares.
So I have one city full of hardcore defense units, a bunch of Artillery,
and a bunch of new units on the way next turn.
The Babylonians start rolling, well, every unit that can move. All 48
Mech Inf, eighty or so Infantry, and a bunch of other units. I
bombarded the hell out of them, then sat there and watched a whole mess
of them blow up going against those Armies.
I lost three regular old MI total. He lost 45 MI in the first round
(the slow units ddn't get in until round two).
Second round, I moved in 16 more Artillery, along with two new MI armies
and one Modern Armor army (just got some Aluminum). Pulled out the
beat-up old Armies for R&R across the strait. Tossed in some more units
for fun.
He lost almost a hundred units, and I lost... two more Mech Infantry.
In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
He's not communicating.
He wanted *horses*.
--
cirby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com
Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly. |
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External
Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> He lost almost a hundred units, and I lost... two more Mech Infantry.
>
> In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
>
> He's not communicating.
>
> He wanted *horses*.
The AI could use a bit of beefing up in the trading area. (And I still
want the game to develop multi-party negotiations, and one-sided
diplomatic agreements, and...)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chad Irby <cirby.TakeThisOut@cfl.rr.com> writes:
>In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
>He's not communicating.
>He wanted *horses*.
Looks like they picked the wrong week to let Nabonidus take over.
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:15 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chad Irby wrote: [in small part]
>
>
> In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
>
> He's not communicating.
>
> He wanted *horses*.
>
LOL!!!
Had something very similar happen to me once as the Babylonians. The
Persians tried to trapse a stack of over 100 (!!) slow troops of various
sorts (everything from infantry down to Immortals and bowmen) through my
territory to attack a third power with whom they were at war. I told
them to get out, they declared war. I proceeded to use massed artillery
and bombers to pound the mega stack until most units had only 1 or 2
hits left, and then went charging in with every unit I could dredge up.
Net result: 100+ dead Persians, fewer than 10 dead Americans. I then
made an alliance with the third power the Persians originally wanted to
attack and we proceeded to pound Darius into the ground.
Seems to me that the computer doesn't understand the vulnerability of
giant stacks of units to bombardment. Spreading units out a little
seems to make them much more resilient to pre-emptive attacks.
As ever, just my $0.02.
--
Jason E. Schaff
jschaff297061.RemoveThis@comcast.net
"You can wash a pig as often as you like, but it will still wallow in
the mud."
--Russian Proverb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <3F564BD9.5070208 RemoveThis @comcast.net>,
"Jason E. Schaff" <jschaff297061 RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> Chad Irby wrote: [in small part]
> >
> > In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
> >
> > He's not communicating.
> >
> > He wanted *horses*.
>
> Seems to me that the computer doesn't understand the vulnerability of
> giant stacks of units to bombardment. Spreading units out a little
> seems to make them much more resilient to pre-emptive attacks.
Since yesterday, I had to switch to Communism (he's still not talking,
and revolution was about to screw me over anyway). I'm still cranking
out units (between five and eight Modern Armor per turn, plus others
stuff), but decided that I was tired of spending them killing every unit
he could make each turn. So I asked the Aztecs (the second-biggest
power in this game after me) what it would take for an alliance versus
the Babylonians.
To convince them to go to war, I had to give the Aztecs... Saltpeter. A
modern country, building Mech Infantry and the like.
Saltpeter. Riiiight.
Then I asked the Indians what they wanted, and they didn't want anything
enough to go to war in an alliance versus the Babylonians. Fair enough.
So when my turn ended, the Indians declared war on them (for free!), and
lost two cities to them right away.
So now the Babylonians (#3) are at war with the powers ranked #1, #2,
and #4, while the Greeks sit things out at #5. I've captured four more
of Babylon's major (15+ pop.) cities in one turn, knocked out their
Rubber, Wine, and Iron production, and have a stack of twenty Modern
Armor and two Armies getting ready to roll through their Palace gates.
They have about 40 Mech Inf left, scattered all over their empire, but
can't build any more.
They're building Riflemen now.
They had one Modern Armor left, which, for some reason, went into a gap
between two of my captured cities and sat on a hill. In range of over
30 Artillery pieces and eight F-15s. That was a very short offensive.
And they're still not communicating.
And the whole war started because they wanted a useless resource I would
have sold them for a few gold per turn, if they'd asked nicely.
--
cirby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com
Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:35 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Joseph Nebus wrote:
> Chad Irby <cirby.RemoveThis@cfl.rr.com> writes:
>
> >In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
>
> >He's not communicating.
>
> >He wanted *horses*.
>
> Looks like they picked the wrong week to let Nabonidus take over.
>
Or Hammurabi's six-year-old daughter...
Andrew<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:31 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <aDu5b.2681$y_6.190694@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Chad Irby
<cirby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> And the whole war started because they wanted a useless resource I would
> have sold them for a few gold per turn, if they'd asked nicely.
It would be nice it the AI would actually tell you why they're going to
war. Often you can tell, but it would add to things to have an actual
declaration of war along the lines of "For hoarding all the horses, you
shall die!"
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <3F564BD9.5070208 DeleteThis @comcast.net>, Jason E. Schaff
<jschaff297061 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> Chad Irby wrote: [in small part]
> >
> >
> > In two turns, the Babylonians lost over 140 units, and I lost five.
> >
> > He's not communicating.
> >
> > He wanted *horses*.
> >
> LOL!!!
>
> Had something very similar happen to me once as the Babylonians. The
> Persians tried to trapse a stack of over 100 (!!) slow troops of various
> sorts (everything from infantry down to Immortals and bowmen) through my
> territory to attack a third power with whom they were at war. I told
> them to get out, they declared war. I proceeded to use massed artillery
> and bombers to pound the mega stack until most units had only 1 or 2
> hits left, and then went charging in with every unit I could dredge up.
> Net result: 100+ dead Persians, fewer than 10 dead Americans. I then
> made an alliance with the third power the Persians originally wanted to
> attack and we proceeded to pound Darius into the ground.
>
> Seems to me that the computer doesn't understand the vulnerability of
> giant stacks of units to bombardment. Spreading units out a little
> seems to make them much more resilient to pre-emptive attacks.
>
Thing is, they don't use the stacks well. I just ignore them, apart
from defending any city they're near, and hit their cities. 100
riflemen stacked 20 squares into your country is 100 riflemen that
aren't defending the homeland. Instead of spreading out and doing
massive pillaging, or even hitting my cities, they'll try and get home
to retake those cities. Given that it will take them 20 turns to get
there....
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <040920032131269645%invid@localnet.com>,
Invid Fan <invid RemoveThis @localnet.com> wrote:
> In article <aDu5b.2681$y_6.190694@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Chad Irby
> <cirby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > And the whole war started because they wanted a useless resource I would
> > have sold them for a few gold per turn, if they'd asked nicely.
>
> It would be nice it the AI would actually tell you why they're going to
> war. Often you can tell, but it would add to things to have an actual
> declaration of war along the lines of "For hoarding all the horses, you
> shall die!"
I wrapped up that little conflict today. A couple of hundred Babylonian
units (about half of them Mech Inf thrown away against artillery and
heavy defenses) and eight captured Babylonian cities (including Babylon
and two Wonders). I lost a total of less than twenty units...
After the war, I asked him what he could trade me for horses. He
offered 240 gold and a trade of World Maps...
--
cirby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com
Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:18 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Fun today... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <g1T5b.9871$Mb2.383211@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Chad Irby
<cirby DeleteThis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <040920032131269645%invid@localnet.com>,
> Invid Fan <invid DeleteThis @localnet.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <aDu5b.2681$y_6.190694@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, Chad Irby
> > <cirby DeleteThis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And the whole war started because they wanted a useless resource I would
> > > have sold them for a few gold per turn, if they'd asked nicely.
> >
> > It would be nice it the AI would actually tell you why they're going to
> > war. Often you can tell, but it would add to things to have an actual
> > declaration of war along the lines of "For hoarding all the horses, you
> > shall die!"
>
> I wrapped up that little conflict today. A couple of hundred Babylonian
> units (about half of them Mech Inf thrown away against artillery and
> heavy defenses) and eight captured Babylonian cities (including Babylon
> and two Wonders). I lost a total of less than twenty units...
>
> After the war, I asked him what he could trade me for horses. He
> offered 240 gold and a trade of World Maps...
Hey, the only way he could afford that 240 gold was because he didn't
have to pay upkeep on that large army any more :)
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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External
Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:49 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: More fun with Dumb AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <3F564BD9.5070208 RemoveThis @comcast.net>,
"Jason E. Schaff" <jschaff297061 RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> Seems to me that the computer doesn't understand the vulnerability of
> giant stacks of units to bombardment. Spreading units out a little
> seems to make them much more resilient to pre-emptive attacks.
They also get *really* dumb about other things.
Like this game. I get one of those nice little Advisor messages that
the Aztecs (who owned three size-6 cities on the south end of my main
continent) and the Indians (who own a half-dozen size-20 cities on the
north end of the same continent, inculding their capital) have signed a
Mutual Protection Pact.
We can all see this coming, right?
The Aztecs declared war on me the next turn. So I took out two of their
cities really fast (gaining some Aluminum that I no longer have to trade
for), getting a return war declaration from the Indians. Total, in the
first turn? I gained three new cities, Aluminum, two Ivory (from the
Indians), a Wonder (from the Indians), for the loss of two Modern Armor.
Second turn was the funny part. There's this lonely Aztec city left in
the south, with a Mech Inf garrison. So I send a Modern Armor Army in
there to take care of it (had to cover two squares before hitting the
city), and after they lost that MI, there was a Spearman left. Sent in
my last surviving Cavalry, killed the Spearman.
Coastal city, right?
A Destroyer blows up.
Then a Transport.
Then a Bomber. And a Bomber. And a Bomber. Et cetera.
In one attack by a Cavalry unit, the Aztecs lost *thirteen* Bombers, in
addition to the two ships. They have zero left in the inventory.
Next turn, the main body of the Aztec ground army hits my most heavily
defended city on the other continent. Three Mech Inf Armies, a mess of
plain old Mech Inf, and 25+ Radar Artillery. They already lost their
first wave of Mod Armor (a dozen or so), and there's a stack of 30 or so
Mech Inf coming in...
--
cirby RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com
Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Fun today... |
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