Welcome to MacForumz.com!
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log in/Register/PasswordLog in/Register/Password

CivIII: Indispensable wonders?

 
   Macintosh computer (Home) -> Strategic RSS
Author Message
Richard P. Grant1

External


Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 29



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:23 pm
Post subject: CivIII: Indispensable wonders?
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>games>strategic (more info?)

Early in the game I go for Colossus for the $$$ benefit, and Great
Library. The Lighthouse is useful for discovering new peoples and
making the Library worth something.

Later on, if I'm German, I must have Sun Tze and Leonardo. The
scientific wonders (Copernicus and Newton) in the middle ages are
essential, and either JS Bach or the Sistine Chapel (although it's
difficult to get those and the science ones). Magellan is critical if
other Civs are across oceans - it's a clear advantage in shipping troops
over and chasing down the enemy's ships. Shakespeare is only useful if
I can build it close to an opponent's cities and I'm trying to cultify
them.

In the industrial age I must have Theory of Evolution and the Hoover
Dam. I'll try for Sufferage. How come there are only 3 wonders in the
Industrial age?

In modern times, I try to bulid SETI early on in the same city as
Copernicus and Newton. UN, naturally. I'll let Manhattan go if it
compromises getting any others. Cure for cancer is nice to have at this
stage because I'm usually sending my modern armour all over the shop and
it helps keep conquered folk happy. I'll only go for Longevity if I've
got a lot of my own luxuries (without trading) because it does cause
trouble in larger cities. It's nice for newly conquered towns though,
as it means you get more of your own people in rapidly.

--
Richard P. Grant | It's called a bio-assay -
0x5F9559B1 | If enough of your customers die,
| you know there is something wrong.
www.rg-d.com/BioLOG | - Adrian Tuddenham on ucsm

 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jason E. Schaff

External


Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 7



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

My personal list of must-haves would include:

1. Great Pyramid - massively speeds the early growth of newly planted
cities. Growth is good!

2. Smith's Trading Company - This one will save you huge amounts of
money in a empire of any significant size and development.

3. Leonardo's Workshop - another one that saves enormous amounts of
money over the long haul.

4. Either Cistene Chapel or Bach's Cathedral - both would be nice, but
I think I've only ever managed to pull that off once.

5. Hoover Dam - The production boost from this one comes at just about
the right time to help in building up a significant army for bashing
some AI heads. (Prior to the industrial age, I find it very difficult
to maintain any sort of serious offensives, both due to slow production
rates for military units in unindustrialized cities and a lack of really
good offensive units.)

I really haven't found most of the science-based wonders to be all that
useful, except for the Great Library, and I usually lose out on getting
that one in order to ensure I get the Pyramids.

Since I usually play on continent-style maps with a high land
percentage, the naval wonders (Magellan, Lighthouse) aren't all that
useful. I would probably put Lighthouse as more important even than
Pyramids on an archapelago-low land map though.

As ever, just my $0.02.
--
Jason E. Schaff

jschaff297061.RemoveThis@comcast.net

"You can wash a pig as often as you like, but it will still wallow in
the mud."
--Russian Proverb

 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Matt McLeod

External


Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:13 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In <3F54C6E1.8060203.RemoveThis@comcast.net>, Jason E. Schaff wrote:
 > 5. Hoover Dam - The production boost from this one comes at just about
 > the right time to help in building up a significant army for bashing
 > some AI heads. (Prior to the industrial age, I find it very difficult
 > to maintain any sort of serious offensives, both due to slow production
 > rates for military units in unindustrialized cities and a lack of really
 > good offensive units.)

Catapults and legions/immortals can usually stomp on your opponents.
I've not quite done world conquest with those alone, but I've taken
out a couple of continents that way.

The trick is to rush for iron right away, then start kicking arse
immediately. You can catch several AIs before they find iron,
and by the time you're done with them you're bigger than everyone
else -- and you've got lots of veteran/elite units.

--
"Sure it corrupts your files, but look how fast it is!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Boyd Michelle Bot

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 13



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jason E. Schaff <jschaff297061.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

 > My personal list of must-haves would include:
 >
 > 1. Great Pyramid - massively speeds the early growth of newly planted
 > cities. Growth is good!

But I find that by the time I have the pyramids, I've already built all
the cities that will produce quickly. The cities I'm building at that
point have major corruption problems, so lots of growth doesn't equate
to cash/shields in those cities, because most of the additional growth
is lost to corruption. By the time I've built a courthouse, the city
has already grown a bit.

 > 2. Smith's Trading Company - This one will save you huge amounts of
 > money in a empire of any significant size and development.

Sun Tze also helps. It's less cash savings, but having lots of barracks
helps in defense, if nothing else. And it denies your aggressive
neighbors the opportunity to grab it.

 > 3. Leonardo's Workshop - another one that saves enormous amounts of
 > money over the long haul.

I don't upgrade enough military units to make this worthwhile. What am
I missing?

 > 5. Hoover Dam - The production boost from this one comes at just about
 > the right time to help in building up a significant army for bashing
 > some AI heads. (Prior to the industrial age, I find it very difficult
 > to maintain any sort of serious offensives, both due to slow production
 > rates for military units in unindustrialized cities and a lack of really
 > good offensive units.)

Yep.

Am I the only one that thinks that the Manhattan Project and Universal
Sufferage should have been small wonders? It doesn't make sense that
one nation building the bomb would allow everyone to do so. Same with
Unoversal Sufferage-- what, only one superpower in the world can allow
everyone to vote?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jason E. Schaff

External


Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 7



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Boyd & Michelle Bottorff wrote: [in part]
 > Jason E. Schaff <jschaff297061.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
 >
  >>3. Leonardo's Workshop - another one that saves enormous amounts of
  >>money over the long haul.
 >
 > I don't upgrade enough military units to make this worthwhile. What am
 > I missing?
 >

I usually make extensive use of the spearman -> pikeman -> musketman ->
rifleman -> infantry -> mech infantry upgrade chain. By the time I
develop mech infantry, it is normal to have several dozen infantry
sitting around waiting to be upgraded, a majority of which are upgraded
rifelmen, etc. Unless playing the Persians or Romans, I never build
swordsmen because of the lack of an upgrade path (something that was
fixed on the PC side with the PTW upgrade - anyone know when that's
supposed to be ported?) I also do a lot of horseman -> knight ->
cavalry upgrades, relying on horses to carry the early offensives since
I don't build swordsmen.

As ever, just my $0.02.
--
Jason E. Schaff

jschaff297061.RemoveThis@comcast.net

"You can wash a pig as often as you like, but it will still wallow in
the mud."
--Russian Proverb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Eric

External


Since: Oct 30, 2003
Posts: 17



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:06 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Based on my experiences with the game, there aren't any wonders that are
indispensable.

Sure, it is great to get them, but at the higher (highest?) levels, it
is nearly impossible to beat the computer to any of them...especially
the early ones, so you must be able to optimize your empire and be abke
to win without them.

I have found they really are rather unnecessary when playing against the
computer.

Would be interested in the opinions of others.


--
== Eric Gorr ========= http://www.ericgorr.net ========= ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like violence, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Jason E. Schaff

External


Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 7



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Matt McLeod wrote:
 >
 >
 > Catapults and legions/immortals can usually stomp on your opponents.
 > I've not quite done world conquest with those alone, but I've taken
 > out a couple of continents that way.
 >
 > The trick is to rush for iron right away, then start kicking arse
 > immediately. You can catch several AIs before they find iron,
 > and by the time you're done with them you're bigger than everyone
 > else -- and you've got lots of veteran/elite units.
 >

Absolutely true. The Persians and Romans are two powers that can make a
serious attempt at early conquests, because of very good unique units.
You just need early/immediate access to iron in order to make this one
work. Try this sort of tactic with regular swordsmen though, and my
experience is that you actually end up weaker relative to the powers not
involved in the resulting war.

As ever, just my $0.02.
--
Jason E. Schaff

jschaff297061 RemoveThis @comcast.net

"You can wash a pig as often as you like, but it will still wallow in
the mud."
--Russian Proverb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Invid Fan

External


Since: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 20



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <slrnblachp.154i.matt DeleteThis @audrey.boggle.org>, Matt McLeod
<matt DeleteThis @boggle.org> wrote:

 > In <3F54C6E1.8060203 DeleteThis @comcast.net>, Jason E. Schaff wrote:
  > > 5. Hoover Dam - The production boost from this one comes at just about
  > > the right time to help in building up a significant army for bashing
  > > some AI heads. (Prior to the industrial age, I find it very difficult
  > > to maintain any sort of serious offensives, both due to slow production
  > > rates for military units in unindustrialized cities and a lack of really
  > > good offensive units.)
 >
 > Catapults and legions/immortals can usually stomp on your opponents.
 > I've not quite done world conquest with those alone, but I've taken
 > out a couple of continents that way.
 >
 > The trick is to rush for iron right away, then start kicking arse
 > immediately. You can catch several AIs before they find iron,
 > and by the time you're done with them you're bigger than everyone
 > else -- and you've got lots of veteran/elite units.

The AI often will not go for Chivalry or Military Tradition right away,
so getting those first can lead to an opening for a quick war of
conquest. A good knight war for luxuries can put you in good shape for
the rest of the game.

--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Invid Fan

External


Since: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 20



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:52 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <2003090307502989811 RemoveThis @216.158.68.105.dragonbbs.com>, Boyd &
Michelle Bottorff <mbottorff RemoveThis @mac.com> wrote:

 > Jason E. Schaff <jschaff297061 RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
 >
  > > My personal list of must-haves would include:
  > >
  > > 1. Great Pyramid - massively speeds the early growth of newly planted
  > > cities. Growth is good!
 >
 > But I find that by the time I have the pyramids, I've already built all
 > the cities that will produce quickly. The cities I'm building at that
 > point have major corruption problems, so lots of growth doesn't equate
 > to cash/shields in those cities, because most of the additional growth
 > is lost to corruption. By the time I've built a courthouse, the city
 > has already grown a bit.
 >
I prefer Hanging Gardens for my one early wonder. It lasts longer then
the Oracle, and will help your Republic if you go to war.

  > > 2. Smith's Trading Company - This one will save you huge amounts of
  > > money in a empire of any significant size and development.
 >
 > Sun Tze also helps. It's less cash savings, but having lots of barracks
 > helps in defense, if nothing else. And it denies your aggressive
 > neighbors the opportunity to grab it.
 >
It's best aspect is the barracks that appear in captured cities. You
can rest and resume the attack VERY quickly, as well as deffend better.

  > > 3. Leonardo's Workshop - another one that saves enormous amounts of
  > > money over the long haul.
 >
 > I don't upgrade enough military units to make this worthwhile. What am
 > I missing?
 >
Everything :) You can build a core group of defense units, and have
them last throughout all the ages by upgrading. Same with attack units:
horsemen ->Knights->Cavalry can give you a large powerful army that can
sweep through your neighbors before they can build modern units.

--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joseph Nebus

External


Since: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 120



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:37 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Richard P. Grant" <rpg14.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk.invalid> writes:

 >Early in the game I go for Colossus for the $$$ benefit, and Great
 >Library. The Lighthouse is useful for discovering new peoples and
 >making the Library worth something.

  The ones I always aim for are the Lighthouse, the Great Library
(which I get maybe a third of the time), Sun Tzu's War Academy and then
Leonardo da Vinci's Workshop. Bach's Cathedral and the Sistene Chapel
are high on my list of targets, but I can't get them consistently. The
Magellan's Voyage and Hoover Dam are also priorities, but I can live
without Magellan most of the time. Hoover Dam I almost have to insist
on.

  Past that, I try to get the Pyramids and Universal Sufferage,
though I'm not very upset if I miss either.

  For whatever reason I haven't got the knack of fighting wars so
that I get military leaders and victorious armies, so I have absolutely
no judgement to make about the Heroic Poem or Military Academy, both of
which I think are minor wonders anyway.


    Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Matt McLeod1

External


Since: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 40



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <nebusj.1062819055.TakeThisOut@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>,
Joseph Nebus <nebusj.TakeThisOut@rpi.edu> wrote:
  > For whatever reason I haven't got the knack of fighting wars so
 >that I get military leaders and victorious armies, so I have absolutely
 >no judgement to make about the Heroic Poem or Military Academy, both of
 >which I think are minor wonders anyway.

Play as a militaristic tribe, try to build some units up to elite
status, and then use those in attacks that are likely to work:
you'll get a leader soon enough.

The Epic just improves your chances of getting more leaders, which
is helpful as armies are nice things to have around. An army of
swordsmen, even, is useful as an offensive force during the appropriate
era.

I'm thinking the way to go for my next game would be militaristic
and expansionist. Easier access to leaders (and thus armies), plus
the lovely early tech advantage an expansionist can get if they're
lucky...

Matt

--
"I only touch base with reality on an as-needed basis!"
-- Royal Floyd Mengot (Klaus)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joseph Nebus

External


Since: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 120



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

matt DeleteThis @tinho.net (Matt McLeod) writes:

 >In article <nebusj.1062819055 DeleteThis @vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>,
 >Joseph Nebus <nebusj DeleteThis @rpi.edu> wrote:
   >> For whatever reason I haven't got the knack of fighting wars so
  >>that I get military leaders and victorious armies, so I have absolutely
  >>no judgement to make about the Heroic Poem or Military Academy, both of
  >>which I think are minor wonders anyway.

 >Play as a militaristic tribe, try to build some units up to elite
 >status, and then use those in attacks that are likely to work:
 >you'll get a leader soon enough.

  Oh, I know that's supposed to happen. It just doesn't. I can
build up Elite units rather nicely, but they don't make the leap to
leadership qualities. If I didn't know better I'd think the game was
reflecting my wishy-washy outlook on life.


    Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CivIII: Indispensable wonders? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Macintosh computer (Home) -> Strategic All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]