Copying my LDs

In article <hdadnSjDU6qvAwHanZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d.RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
D P Schreber <schreberdp.RemoveThis@rayban.net> wrote:

> On 2008-01-27, Howard Brazee <howard.RemoveThis@brazee.net> wrote:
> > Googling hasn't helped me much. I have a Pioneer LD player that I'm
> > retiring as it is getting old, but I want to copy my laserdisks to DVD
> > so I can play them in the future.
>
> I can tell you from experience you probably won't be very happy with
> the results. But the process goes something like this:
>
> 1) Get a video capture device, as good as you can afford. I recommend
> a Canopus model with time-base correction. You can also use an EyeTV
> or some camcorders but the results won't be as good. Whatever you
> use, get something with firewire output.
>
> 2) Connect the video+audio outputs of the LV player to the capture
> device and the firewire output of the capture device to your Mac.
>
> 3) Start iMovie. It should detect the capture device as if it were a
> camera.
....

What exactly was unsatisfactory? quality of the video conversion?
(e.g., is it just that S-VHS is lower quality than the LD, or is
it somehow worse than that implies?)
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:07:30 -0600, D P Schreber
<schreberdp DeleteThis @rayban.net> wrote:

>My guess is you mean composite video, no not component video. The
>former is one rca jack, the latter is three. Assuming so, use the
>s-video. If you really do have component video outputs, use those.

It says "Component video out", with a Y, Cb, & Cr jack.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

In article <mlsiemon-B7CF7B.09312727012008 RemoveThis @nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net>,
Michael Siemon <mlsiemon RemoveThis @sonic.net> wrote:

> In article <hdadnSjDU6qvAwHanZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
> D P Schreber <schreberdp RemoveThis @rayban.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2008-01-27, Howard Brazee <howard RemoveThis @brazee.net> wrote:
> > > Googling hasn't helped me much. I have a Pioneer LD player that I'm
> > > retiring as it is getting old, but I want to copy my laserdisks to DVD
> > > so I can play them in the future.
> >
> > I can tell you from experience you probably won't be very happy with
> > the results. But the process goes something like this:
>
> What exactly was unsatisfactory? quality of the video conversion?
> (e.g., is it just that S-VHS is lower quality than the LD, or is
> it somehow worse than that implies?)

The quality of picture, especially on high def screens. LD movies were
frequently letter-boxed, so from the roughly 480 vertical lines visible
of 525 scans of an NTSC frame, you lose about 80-100 lines for the black
areas above and below the picture. Then, converting them to digital,
the images will be very blocky and/or blurry (can vary as to hardware
and software used to sample up). Even if the recorded image is only
taken to SD, the area expansion will still not be as detailed as a DVD
taken from the master. This is an inherent factor of transferring
anything from an analog source and then digitally expanding to fill the
screen on the computer.

That said, turning to the OP, after you do the transfers, how are you
planning to dispose of the LVDs? I might be interested in some of them.

jt
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:29:18 GMT, jt august <starsabre.RemoveThis@net.att> wrote:

>That said, turning to the OP, after you do the transfers, how are you
>planning to dispose of the LVDs? I might be interested in some of them.

I was planning on keeping them, although some of them were very
expensive back when.

Hopefully my LD player will last longer if I don't use it, and I can
get it out for special occasions.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On 2008-01-27, jt august <starsabre.TakeThisOut@net.att> wrote:
> The quality of picture, especially on high def screens.
> [good summary deleted]

I should have made clear that the picture quality issues I mentioned
in passing are particularly noticeable on a wide-screen lcd/plasma tv.



> That said, turning to the OP, after you do the transfers, how are you
> planning to dispose of the LVDs? I might be interested in some of them.

You can have all of mine for the cost of shipping (or for free if you
happen to live in the Boston area and want to pick them up). Lots of
Criterion. They're just taking up space I need for other things at
this point.

If that's your real email address I can send you a detailed list.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On 2008-01-27, Michael Siemon <mlsiemon RemoveThis @sonic.net> wrote:
> What exactly was unsatisfactory? quality of the video conversion?

Another poster has described more details but essentially the problem
is inherent to digitizing ntsc analog video into compressed digital
video. There's just not enough information available to start with,
and the subsequent mpeg compression for dvd makes it significantly
worse. As the other poster points out, letterboxed laser discs will
be worse yet if you try to expand the mpeg video to fill a wide-screen
tv.

Using a very high quality capture device helps, using less compression
with dual-layer dvd helps some, using the best output jacks helps a
little (component video in the OP's case). But there's only so much to
be done here.

The raw dv coming out of the capture device doesn't look _too_ much
worse than the LV. If the OP has huge amounts of disk space
available, or only a handful of LV's to convert, and if he's willing
to use the his Mac to play back the movies, that might be an option.
Figure 11GB/hour for storage of the dv data. Or just keep the laser
player and watch the discs that way.


> (e.g., is it just that S-VHS is lower quality than the LD, or is

Laser video (it's usually called 'LV' by the way, not 'LD') looked
good relative to vhs but only because vhs was always atrocious (beta
marginally less so). It's still conventional analog video, with far
less information than the original film. In this context the
difference between using the component outputs and the s-video output
is observable but small.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On 2008-01-27, Howard Brazee <howard.DeleteThis@brazee.net> wrote:
> It says "Component video out", with a Y, Cb, & Cr jack.

If you can use this you should, but my guess is you won't find this
form of component video on a modern capture device. This is different
from what's usually referred to as component video on modern TVs, dvd
players, and DVRs. I don't _think_ there's any direct conversion from
the former to the latter, but I could be wrong about that.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:07:43 -0600, D P Schreber
<schreberdp.TakeThisOut@rayban.net> wrote:

>If you can use this you should, but my guess is you won't find this
>form of component video on a modern capture device. This is different
>from what's usually referred to as component video on modern TVs, dvd
>players, and DVRs. I don't _think_ there's any direct conversion from
>the former to the latter, but I could be wrong about that.

Do you have any recommendations on what (and where) I should look for
in a capture device? Money is an important consideration.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On 2008-01-28, Howard Brazee <howard.TakeThisOut@brazee.net> wrote:
> Do you have any recommendations on what (and where) I should look for
> in a capture device? Money is an important consideration.

I would avoid anything device that does its own mpeg compression on
the fly. Movies on LV are at least two sides of a disc and could
easily be four sides or more if it's CAV. You need to be able to join
these segments cleanly and there's really no way to do that unless
you're working with uncompressed DV data.

To get DV in, you can use some digital camcorders. But for better
quality I would recommend a Canopus. You will definitely see the
difference between a capture device that does time-base correction and
one that doesn't. These are not cheap though. Maybe you can borrow
one or rent one or pick up a used one on ebay. The specific model I
own is the ADVC 300. I bought it some years ago; I don't know whether
or not this specific model is made anymore. I forget exactly what I
paid, but it was several hundred dollars.
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:18:46 -0600, D P Schreber
<schreberdp DeleteThis @rayban.net> wrote:

>To get DV in, you can use some digital camcorders. But for better
>quality I would recommend a Canopus. You will definitely see the
>difference between a capture device that does time-base correction and
>one that doesn't. These are not cheap though. Maybe you can borrow
>one or rent one or pick up a used one on ebay. The specific model I
>own is the ADVC 300. I bought it some years ago; I don't know whether
>or not this specific model is made anymore. I forget exactly what I
>paid, but it was several hundred dollars.

I might have to wait a year then. Buying my Mac blew my budget for
this year, and I need to squeeze out an external drive and get a
keyboard suited for touch typing. My allowance also pays for
gasoline, gifts and other toys (golf season is about ready to start).
 >> Stay informed about: Copying my LDs