EU II questions

In article <241120031655056994%sturmvogel_66@sbcglobal.net>,
Jason Long <sturmvogel_66.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >There are a number of random events that either cost stability or
 >money. If you don't have a large treasury and would be forced to get a
 >loan to pay the bill, is it generally worth getting the loan over
 >taking the stability hit, given that you can generally recover the
 >stability in a year or two?

Depends on the cirtumstances.

If you're already unstable, take the loan. If you're at +3 and
it's a -1 hit, take the stability loss.

Alternately, try to maintain a nest-egg in treasury. It's
rather helpful for dealing with unexpected wars, too.

 >Is colonization or manufacutories a higher priority once you can build
 >them in the early game?

Colonization is cheaper, and if you pick your targets carefully
(i.e., perhaps refrain from bothering with fishing territory
unless it's strategically useful) it gets very lucrative.

Wheat/grain is worth colonizing as it improves your overall
manpower.

 >I went with the former, but noticed that my
 >research was really slow by the late 1400s and that my numerous
 >colonies didn't really seem to help that much. Especially since I had
 >trouble monopolizing my own CoT by the 1500s!

I try to concentrate on one or two areas of research at a time, and
try to keep my budget balanced and my forces under my maintenance
limits. That last one can be quite difficult in time of war, so
I may choose to take out some loans and go crazy in order to finish
the war off faster.

 >And does the Fine Arts Academy pay into annual revenue or monthly?

Both, I believe. They add to the tax income of the province.

 >I went west into the Caribbean to take advantage of the profitable
 >sugar islands and didn't even get past the Cape of Good Hope until
 >around 1500. Good idea or bad?

If you're on bad terms with Spain, bad idea. Africa is *yours*.
As is Brazil. The Caribbean is Spain's, and they can take whatever
they want whenever they want without having to declare war. And
it's difficult to defend, and there are all those damned pirates.

If you want an easy ride, aim for North America instead. Less
spectacularly rich, but if you annex the Lenape quickly you'll
get yourself the Manhattan CoT, and that you probably *can*
monopolize for quite some time.

Also, explore Brazil as soon as you can. There's some gold there,
which can be quite helpful. And if you manage to get to California
first, don't stop -- there's gold further north in the Yukon, too.

 >The manual references a pause key, what the hell is it talking about?

"/".

The PC version uses the "pause" key on the keyboard for this,
I'm not sure if Mac keyboards even have that key (I use a
Sun Type 6 on my Mac, and it does.)

Matt

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in article bpu9ei$gs9$1@reader2.panix.com, Matt McLeod at matt DeleteThis @tinho.net
wrote on 11/24/03 4:57 PM:

  >> The manual references a pause key, what the hell is it talking about?
 >
 > "/".

Correct.

 > The PC version uses the "pause" key on the keyboard for this,
 > I'm not sure if Mac keyboards even have that key (I use a
 > Sun Type 6 on my Mac, and it does.)

Not on my Apple keyboard. Some of the other hot keys the manual lists don't
work either. "Home" key does, and I find it very useful when I need to get
back to the mother country in a hurry.

Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Jason Long <sturmvogel_66 DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> writes:

 >There are a number of random events that either cost stability or
 >money. If you don't have a large treasury and would be forced to get a
 >loan to pay the bill, is it generally worth getting the loan over
 >taking the stability hit, given that you can generally recover the
 >stability in a year or two?

  I tend to take the stability hit, but I make keeping stability
up at +3 my highest priority. There are enough random events that can
swipe three points away from you ...


 >My impression is that the loan is the lesser of the two evils as you
 >can generally sit on your hands for two years and repay the loan
 >without the hit on your research. Comments?

  The loans generally annoy me, mostly because I haven't found a
note that warns you when one's coming due, or how many you currently
have out, so it takes more concentration to build up a cash reserve to
pay them off.


 >Is colonization or manufacutories a higher priority once you can build
 >them in the early game? I went with the former, but noticed that my
 >research was really slow by the late 1400s and that my numerous
 >colonies didn't really seem to help that much. Especially since I had
 >trouble monopolizing my own CoT by the 1500s!

  It's hard to say. I think I'd throw my weight to manufactories
just because they pay off steadily from the moment they're built until
the moment a catastrophic fire destroys them two game years later. (At
least it feels that way.) That lets you either advance more rapidly or
save more tax revenues; either way, you have an advantage.

  Colonies are great, but they don't produce tax revenue until they
become cities; below that they can provide resources but aren't that much
good for themselves.

  The counterbalancing factor, though, is setting up a trading post
prevents any other nation from grabbing it, except through war, making it
a good way to reserve stuff for later expansion; and colonies similarly
reserve territory and allow you to use them as staging areas. Mostly I
end up tossing out trading posts or level-1/level-2 colonies at the limits
of my current explorations, to use as staging areas for the next round of
explorers/conquistadors who show up. Then I'll pick specific areas and
send all my colonists there until I've got a small city territory. It's a
bit obsesive-compulsive, but that's my way of thinking.


 >And does the Fine Arts Academy pay into annual revenue or monthly?

  I believe that it's monthly, based on how the stability bar will
increase if you watch the budget menu.


 >I went west into the Caribbean to take advantage of the profitable
 >sugar islands and didn't even get past the Cape of Good Hope until
 >around 1500. Good idea or bad?

  Yes and no. There are a couple of missions one can go on
for which discovering a foreign territory gets you victory points, but
otherwise it's not like you have to meet any timetables.


 >Will a single fort quash pirates in a sea zone, or does every port in
 >the sea zone need to be fortified? Damn those pirates are annoying, if
 >for no other reason than the time required to deal with them!

  That I don't know. I've sent task forces from my fleet to tromp
around and occasionally do battle with them. Keeps the sailors busy.


 >The manual references a pause key, what the hell is it talking about?

  Asked and answered. The other neat key I've learned is ``Home''
takes you to hover over your capital province -- extremely handy when
your world-spanning empire is getting out of hand.


 >Damn this game can consume your life!

  Yeah, nothing much will help that. I've noticed ``Hearts of
Iron,'' its World War II variant, is out, too.

    Joseph Nebus
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in article bpvtkv$ndq@viper.nic.rpi.edu, Joseph Nebus at nebusj DeleteThis @rpi.edu
wrote on 11/25/03 7:48 AM:

 > The loans generally annoy me, mostly because I haven't found a note that warns
 > you when one's coming due, or how many you currently have out, so it takes
 > more concentration to build up a cash reserve to pay them off.

I've gotten into the habit of opening the Big Book on page 15 where all your
loans are listed together with when they are due and what the interests are.
It's a good way of keeping track and knowing how much I need to have in the
kitty.

 > Yeah, nothing much will help that. I've noticed ``Hearts of Iron,'' its World
 > War II variant, is out, too.

I just ordered that the other day. Does anyone have any experience with it
yet? The general (NPI) buzz is that it's not as good as EU2, but since I am
a WW II history buff I thought I would go ahead and take the plunge.

Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Jason Long wrote:

 > Will a single fort quash pirates in a sea zone, or does every port in
 > the sea zone need to be fortified? Damn those pirates are annoying, if
 > for no other reason than the time required to deal with them!

The best way to deal with pirates is putting a galley in each seazone
bordering your territory (they can stay there indefinitely without going
to port). They prevent the pirates from spawning there and if the
pirates attack from adjacent zones you've got a huge defender bonus.
(This assumes your country can build galleys. It works with warships
too, but those are more expensive and actually weaker in the first part
of the timeframe)

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in article I_Owb.35306$mU6.120181@newsb.telia.net, Per Hagwall at
per.hagwall DeleteThis @NOSPAMtelia.com wrote on 11/25/03 12:31 PM:

 > The best way to deal with pirates is putting a galley in each seazone
 > bordering your territory...

In my own experience, I found that just one will not always suffice. I
usually put three and sometimes five up. Why not, as you say, they're cheap.

 > They prevent the pirates from spawning there...

Not in every case perhaps. Maybe some of the ones I've seen appearing in sea
zones I control are being chased there from other zones by other nations,
but I think they can appear spontaneously as well under certain
circumstances.

I notice that the naval technology of pirates improves as time goes on. I'm
not sure how the game determines this (maybe it averages the naval
technology of naval powers or something), but if you aren't aggressively
pursuing the developement of naval tech, it might get the jump on you for a
few years. I was noticing that the pirates I was seeing last night appear to
have galleons already and it's only 1590.

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In article <bpu9ei$gs9$1@reader2.panix.com>,
matt.TakeThisOut@tinho.net (Matt McLeod) wrote:

  > >[I]s it generally worth getting the loan over
  > >taking the stability hit, given that you can generally recover the
  > >stability in a year or two?
 >
 > If you're already unstable, take the loan. If you're at +3 and
 > it's a -1 hit, take the stability loss.

I'll second this.

 > Alternately, try to maintain a nest-egg in treasury. It's
 > rather helpful for dealing with unexpected wars, too.

Definitely. Early in the game I aim for a minimum treasury balance of
200, later on for 400.

  > >Is colonization or manufacutories a higher priority once you can build
  > >them in the early game?
 >
 > Colonization is cheaper, and if you pick your targets carefully
 > (i.e., perhaps refrain from bothering with fishing territory
 > unless it's strategically useful) it gets very lucrative.
 >
 > Wheat/grain is worth colonizing as it improves your overall
 > manpower.

I'm not that keen on academies, since they only really kick in when you
are below par on stability. But refineries are very valuable early in
the game, and the military/naval factories later on. The goods
manufacturies I think come too late to be very useful.

  > >I went with the former, but noticed that my
  > >research was really slow by the late 1400s and that my numerous
  > >colonies didn't really seem to help that much. Especially since I had
  > >trouble monopolizing my own CoT by the 1500s!

Spread your trading effort around more. I find that monopolies are
usually only sustainable in remote CoTs.

 > I try to concentrate on one or two areas of research at a time

Likewise. Discovering one thing is much more valuable than being
halfway to discovering two (which gains you nothing).

  > >And does the Fine Arts Academy pay into annual revenue or monthly?
 >
 > Both, I believe. They add to the tax income of the province.

Monthly, I think. But the cash income from manufacturies is small
anyway compared to the stabilty/research bonuses.

  > >I went west into the Caribbean to take advantage of the profitable
  > >sugar islands and didn't even get past the Cape of Good Hope until
  > >around 1500. Good idea or bad?

Good.

 > If you're on bad terms with Spain, bad idea. Africa is *yours*.
 > As is Brazil.

Right, so you can colonise either at leisure. In the Caribbean you have
to be quick, or first Spain and then England and France will pick up
everything.

 >The Caribbean is Spain's, and they can take whatever
 > they want whenever they want without having to declare war.

Only if you don't defend it. Get in there quick and grab what you can
before Spain knows what's happening.

 > If you want an easy ride, aim for North America instead. Less
 > spectacularly rich,

Agree so far, but ...

 >but if you annex the Lenape quickly you'll
 > get yourself the Manhattan CoT, and that you probably *can*
 > monopolize for quite some time.

.... I have more trouble maintaining merchants in Manhattan than in any
other CoT, bar none. By around 1600 I typically have at least 4
merchants at every other CoT in the world, but am struggling to keep 2
in Manhattan.

 > Also, explore Brazil as soon as you can. There's some gold there,
 > which can be quite helpful. And if you manage to get to California
 > first, don't stop -- there's gold further north in the Yukon, too.

California is a prime target. As I have said before in this NG, the AI
Spain is far too slow at getting there

  > >The manual references a pause key, what the hell is it talking about?
 >
 > "/".
 >
 > The PC version uses the "pause" key on the keyboard for this,
 > I'm not sure if Mac keyboards even have that key (I use a
 > Sun Type 6 on my Mac, and it does.)

Extended Mac keyboards do have a Pause key, but it does nothing in EU.
"/" is the one.

Best wishes,
Matthew Collett

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In article <m.collett-C9796B.20382325112003 RemoveThis @lust.ihug.co.nz>,
Matthew Collett <m.collett RemoveThis @auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
 >In article <bpu9ei$gs9$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 > matt RemoveThis @tinho.net (Matt McLeod) wrote:
  >> Alternately, try to maintain a nest-egg in treasury. It's
  >> rather helpful for dealing with unexpected wars, too.
 >
 >Definitely. Early in the game I aim for a minimum treasury balance of
 >200, later on for 400.

Same numbers here, too. I particularly hate the inflation random
events -- those can be real killers -- which is why I started keeping
some cash around.

 >I'm not that keen on academies, since they only really kick in when you
 >are below par on stability.

I build one in my capital once I can reasonably afford it, but no more.

  >> I try to concentrate on one or two areas of research at a time
 >
 >Likewise. Discovering one thing is much more valuable than being
 >halfway to discovering two (which gains you nothing).

And of course if you don't stay competitive in land tech then you're
going to have a very rough time during the inevitable wars...

  >> If you're on bad terms with Spain, bad idea. Africa is *yours*.
  >> As is Brazil.
 >
 >Right, so you can colonise either at leisure. In the Caribbean you have
 >to be quick, or first Spain and then England and France will pick up
 >everything.

To be honest, I don't really like the Caribbean. The natives are
particularly hostile, so you have little choice but to kill them all
if you want to get settlements up and running. Elsewhere you at least
have the option of leaving the natives there and scoring a nice big
population once you hit city status.

And there's the whole thing of it being islands. I can see some
appeal in Cuba, and in the neighbouring contiental territory, but
the islands themselves are a PITA to defend.

The southern African provinces are pretty reasonable. They're not
hugely wealthy, but from memory they have native populations you can
use, and they're quite strategically useful. If I'm playing a
colonial game I pretty much always seek to dominate the Cape and
the Lenape territories as soon as I possibly can.

  >>but if you annex the Lenape quickly you'll
  >> get yourself the Manhattan CoT, and that you probably *can*
  >> monopolize for quite some time.
 >
 >... I have more trouble maintaining merchants in Manhattan than in any
 >other CoT, bar none. By around 1600 I typically have at least 4
 >merchants at every other CoT in the world, but am struggling to keep 2
 >in Manhattan.

Hm. I'm usually able to grab Manhattan not long after 1500. That's
a clear hundred years of dominating that market, and don't forget that
there's an advantage to controlling the CoT even if you don't dominate
the actual market there.

And annexing the Lenape gives you a nice solid base to work with in
North America: three provinces of reasonable population in a nice
defendable cluster. Grab some of the surrounding neutral territory
while you're at it, and your enemies will have a hell of a time
trying to root you out.

Matt

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in article m.collett-C9796B.20382325112003.RemoveThis@lust.ihug.co.nz, Matthew Collett
at m.collett.RemoveThis@auckland.ac.nz wrote on 11/24/03 11:38 PM:

 > In article <bpu9ei$gs9$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 > matt.RemoveThis@tinho.net (Matt McLeod) wrote:
 >
 > I'm not that keen on academies, since they only really kick in when you
 > are below par on stability.

I have a question about the academies. Just how do they work on stabiliity?
Do they give a one time stab bonus if they open when your stab is low? Or do
they give some kind of persistent bonus everytime your stab drops and you're
trying to pull it back up? If the latter, does having more than one academy
help more?


 > The goods manufacturies I think come too late to be very useful.

Hmm. That might depend on playing style. The manual says that each one
provides a bonus in infra research. Additionally, all factories "lessen the
risk of rebellion, increase the demand for certain goods, and increase the
rate of population growth in the province where the factory is located."

Also, I note that some scenarios begin with good factories already in place.

 > By around 1600 I typically have at least 4 merchants at every other CoT in the
 > world...

Okay, I've gotta say that I regard trade as kind of an undeveloped facet of
the game. A lot of it remains really obscure to me. For instance, what do
merchants actually *do* in CoTs? Do they buy? Sell? Both? How is trade being
conducted? If a country has a commodity surplus to its internal needs, does
it then place the excess on the international market, or is internal trade
also being conducted in CoTs? And what happens to a national economy if it
can neither produce enough of something nor obtain it on the international
market? It seem to me that the game does not account for these factors, or
at least does not do so transparently.

 > Extended Mac keyboards do have a Pause key...

That must have been added after I got mine, spring '01.

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In article <BBE857B0.1AE1D%emrys@olypen.com>,
Michael Emrys <emrys.TakeThisOut@olypen.com> wrote:
 >I have a question about the academies. Just how do they work on stabiliity?
 >Do they give a one time stab bonus if they open when your stab is low? Or do
 >they give some kind of persistent bonus everytime your stab drops and you're
 >trying to pull it back up? If the latter, does having more than one academy
 >help more?

Same deal as other factories: they add a number of ducats to your
monthly "spend" on stability.

 >Okay, I've gotta say that I regard trade as kind of an undeveloped facet of
 >the game.

It's highly abstracted, and yes, this is not really an economic
simulation. Merchants buy *and* sell, and all you really see from
it is the profit. The more merchants in a CoT, the more revenue.

With my playing style, I don't do so well with trade. I tend to
concentrate on land and infrastructure tech, so I am almost always
*way* behind the other Europeans with trade. I find the trade system
a bit frustrating, because I am never able to maintain merchants in
the more lucrative European markets (i.e., Venice and Tago).

So I like to control CoTs rather than their markets. Having an
active CoT in a province can really boost the tax revenues, and
once your trade tech gets to a high enough level you can use your
physical control as a weapon.

Matt

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In article <bpv1rp$ooc$1@reader2.panix.com>,
matt.DeleteThis@tinho.net (Matt McLeod) wrote:

 > The southern African provinces are pretty reasonable. They're not
 > hugely wealthy, but from memory they have native populations you can
 > use, and they're quite strategically useful. If I'm playing a
 > colonial game I pretty much always seek to dominate the Cape and
 > the Lenape territories as soon as I possibly can.

South Africa is definitely worth going for: it's easy to colonise, Table
is a good province (and the others are OK), and it's a valuable staging
post on the way to the Far East.

  > >... I have more trouble maintaining merchants in Manhattan than in any
  > >other CoT, bar none. By around 1600 I typically have at least 4
  > >merchants at every other CoT in the world, but am struggling to keep 2
  > >in Manhattan.
 >
 > Hm. I'm usually able to grab Manhattan not long after 1500. That's
 > a clear hundred years of dominating that market, and don't forget that
 > there's an advantage to controlling the CoT even if you don't dominate
 > the actual market there.

Sure, owning a CoT is always valuable, but it is completely uncorrelated
with "dominating that market". I suspect the problem in Manhattan is
that several of the Indian nations don't know about any other CoT, so
_all_ of their merchants get sent there. And even though their trade
level is low, that still adds up to a lot of competition.

 > And annexing the Lenape gives you a nice solid base to work with in
 > North America:

I'm increasingly keen on the whole idea of conquering New World nations;
the thing that slows me down is getting CBs against them, since I really
don't want the stability hit from declaring war without one. I try to
keep them constantly 'warned', so that any war among the native states
gives me an excuse to intervene (but annoyingly there's no prompt when a
warning expires), and occasionally a random 'diplomatic insult' or some
such gives you a CB, but it's usually not quite enough.

Best wishes,
Matthew Collett

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In article <m.collett-82A151.23563325112003 DeleteThis @lust.ihug.co.nz>,
Matthew Collett <m.collett DeleteThis @auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
 >In article <bpv1rp$ooc$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 > matt DeleteThis @tinho.net (Matt McLeod) wrote:
  >> And annexing the Lenape gives you a nice solid base to work with in
  >> North America:
 >
 >I'm increasingly keen on the whole idea of conquering New World nations;
 >the thing that slows me down is getting CBs against them, since I really
 >don't want the stability hit from declaring war without one.

I gladly take the hit to annex the Lenape as soon I possibly can.
Typically I'll cruise around the area until I discover a province
or three that are quite close by, pump settlers into one or two
of those to get myself a good local base, build up forces next
door, declare war, and have them annexed within the year.

For the others, yeah, it can be difficult getting the CBs.

Matt

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in article m.collett-82A151.23563325112003.TakeThisOut@lust.ihug.co.nz, Matthew Collett
at m.collett.TakeThisOut@auckland.ac.nz wrote on 11/25/03 2:56 AM:

 > In article <bpv1rp$ooc$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 > matt.TakeThisOut@tinho.net (Matt McLeod) wrote:
 >
  >> The southern African provinces are pretty reasonable. They're not
  >> hugely wealthy, but from memory they have native populations you can
  >> use, and they're quite strategically useful. If I'm playing a
  >> colonial game I pretty much always seek to dominate the Cape and
  >> the Lenape territories as soon as I possibly can.
 >
 > South Africa is definitely worth going for: it's easy to colonise, Table
 > is a good province (and the others are OK), and it's a valuable staging
 > post on the way to the Far East.

Yep. I'll add my vote to this consensus. Bourbon and Mauritius are also good
to get if you can. They are both sugar provinces and thus lucrative
territories in their own right and valuable stopovers on your way to the
East. Absolutely indispensible in case you miss out on getting a South
African province, or alternately if you have both SA and these two islands,
you can make it harder for other European nations to get a foothold in Asia.

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