Europa Universalis II on 9

In <290820031558381880%messenger@rlyeh.org>, Nyarlathotep wrote:
 > Also the map is always historical, so once you've played a few times
 > you will know where all the most lucrative provinces to colonize are.

This isn't strictly true. The actual geography of the thing is
fixed, yes, but just about everything else (resources, climate,
native strength, etc) is set in text files. And there are tools
around that'll create nicely balanced "fantasia" games -- including
randomising the map.

You can also create "what-if" scenarios, if you like. My current
favourite is "what-if Prester John's kingdom had been real?", which
required a small tweak to make Ethiopia a little more competitive.

I was surprised to find that the Mac port is more stable than the
Windows version. I've had it crash on me once, while the Windows
version tends to crash every few hours.

--
"Tell someone who doesn't regard you as an argument
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Michael Emrys <emrys DeleteThis @olypen.com> writes:

 >I assume most everybody is playing this under OS X, but has anybody played
 >it under 9? And can anybody compare its performance under the two OSs?

 >For that matter, does anybody have anything at all to say about this game?
 >It appears to be a viable alternative to Imp II.

  I've only -- finally -- gotten the game this week, so I'm still
in the stage of getting the hang of it. The game box claims it takes
OS X or OS 9.0 and up, which suggests it should be viable. I've only
run it under OS X; it's *quite* speedy. One of the interesting things
about the game is it starts in media res; you don't have, like in the
Civilization games, an early game in which everybody has two provinces
and three army units and only later expands. The game starts with as
much complexity as it can handle, so it doesn't seem to slow down as
time goes on.

  The screenshots of the game, ages ago, made me think it had some
creators from Imperialism I and II behind it -- the graphic design was
that strongly suggestive of it. Having actually played some, I'm sure
now of that connection: it uses some of the ``construction'' sounds of
the Imperialism games. Excellent.

  It's a lot to get used to, though. Unlike Imperialism II it's
not turn-based; time progresses at one day every few seconds until you
hit pause. (Revenue comes in monthly, though, giving some of the
structure of a turn.)

  The game starts with *everybody* in play; the first scenario I
got a hold of was the American Dream, in which you fight for the
independence of the United States, and in which your territories are
compact, your enemies few, and your goals clear: just annoy the British
long enough that they give up. To my surprise they even simulate the
establishment of the 1787 Constitution and let you go through
Presidential Elections.

  The most disconcerting thing about the game, so far, is that
having control of a territory doesn't mave you sovereign in it. It's
only in peace negotiations that you can take over a territory, no
matter how well you've fought for it. Historically accurate, but I'm
not yet adjusted to what it does to strategy. (But holding territory
improves your bargaining position, so there's merit to having your
troops march across unoccupied Canadian provinces, just to grab them.)

  The diplomatic options are overwhelming, and I havne't done
more than the most basic things with them yet. The game is, overall,
amazing, incredibly flexible, and is almost a satisfactory substitute
for Imperialism II. I am incredibly happy this weekend.

    Joseph Nebus
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in article nebusj.1062270592.DeleteThis@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu, Joseph Nebus at
nebusj.DeleteThis@rpi.edu wrote on 8/30/03 12:28 PM:

 > Unlike Imperialism II it's not turn-based; time progresses at one day every
 > few seconds until you hit pause.

Now that I might not be too crazy about. But if you can give orders while
paused, I suppose I can get used to it.

Thanks, everybody who have responded so far. It sounds cool and I think it
will be the next great obsession of my life.

If anyone has further comments or suggestions, keep 'em coming.

:-)

Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In <BB767531.16BCA%emrys@olypen.com>, Michael Emrys wrote:
 > in article nebusj.1062270592.RemoveThis@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu, Joseph Nebus at
 > nebusj.RemoveThis@rpi.edu wrote on 8/30/03 12:28 PM:
 >
  >> Unlike Imperialism II it's not turn-based; time progresses at one day every
  >> few seconds until you hit pause.
 >
 > Now that I might not be too crazy about. But if you can give orders while
 > paused, I suppose I can get used to it.

Yes, you can do just about everything while paused, and there are a bunch
of speeds the game can run at, changable on the fly. It ends up being a
lot easier to keep tabs on than you'd expect.

There's one significant fault in the diplomatic model AFAIC: you can
only be in one alliance at a time, and you can't merge alliances. So
even if you're alliance leader (only the leader can invite new members),
if the country you want to invite in is already in an alliance you
just can't do it.

 > If anyone has further comments or suggestions, keep 'em coming.

Read some of the AARs on the forums, at <http://www.europa-universalis.com>.
There's some great reading there, and it'll give you an idea of the
possiblities. The "Timurid Scientists" is terribly amusing.

Watch out for the badboy points. Just about every diplomatic action
changes your badboy rating (the number behind the reputation text).
Declaring war on a nation against whom you have no cassus belli is
an excellent way to increase that, and when it gets too high everyone
hates you, your relations with everyone go downhill quite thoroughly,
and you'll find yourself with a lot more wars on your hands.

However, your enemies are more likely to behave like nation-states
of the period than multiplayer opponents: in just about every game
your enemies will try to completely wipe you out. That sort of thing
would've been unthinkable at the time (provided you're a European
country), and generally doesn't happen unless you're playing as one
of the one-province states, or Byzantium.

I've wasted something like six months on this game, and am still
hooked.

--
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In article <nebusj.1062270592.TakeThisOut@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>, Joseph Nebus
<nebusj.TakeThisOut@rpi.edu> wrote:
 >
 > I've only -- finally -- gotten the game this week, so I'm still
 > in the stage of getting the hang of it. The game box claims it takes
 > OS X or OS 9.0 and up, which suggests it should be viable. I've only
 > run it under OS X; it's *quite* speedy.

So, the rumors that I've heard about this being a bad, slow, clunky
port are false??!

If so, I'm off to the Mac store to pick it up on Tuesday!! (I'd been
holding off because I'd heard vague, unspecified mutterings about it.)


-- Jim C.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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James Chokey <jcdontyouspammehokey.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> writes:

 >In article <nebusj.1062270592.RemoveThis@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu>, Joseph Nebus
 ><nebusj.RemoveThis@rpi.edu> wrote:
  >>
  >> I've only -- finally -- gotten the game this week, so I'm still
  >> in the stage of getting the hang of it. The game box claims it takes
  >> OS X or OS 9.0 and up, which suggests it should be viable. I've only
  >> run it under OS X; it's *quite* speedy.

 >So, the rumors that I've heard about this being a bad, slow, clunky
 >port are false??!

 >If so, I'm off to the Mac store to pick it up on Tuesday!! (I'd been
 >holding off because I'd heard vague, unspecified mutterings about it.)

  Well, *my* experience is that it's perfectly fine. That's on
a 600 MHz iBook. I had a crash, but that was before loading the update
and bug fix that's on the MacPlay web site.

  I've had some trouble clicking on exactly what I mean, but that's
more because there are about five jillion available maps so it's easy to
be in the wrong mode. The few times it's seemed to be doing nothing at
all it's turned out I had left the game in pause mode. (I've set it to
pause automatically when an event message pops but, and then lost track
of how many pauses I've clicked down.)

  The game also has a nasty habit of popping up 86 event message
windows at a time ("Your Delaware Regiment has arrived in Micmac!" "The
Delaware Regiment is under attack in Micmac!" "The Delaware Regiment has
beaten off attackers in Micmac!" "The Delware Regiment has attacked a
fortress in Micmac!" "The Delaware Regiment has destroyed the fortress
in Micmac!" "The Delaware Regiment has taken control of Micmac!" How
much information on Micmac does any sovereign *need*?) but those may be
adjusted to taste.

  It's a shame they couldn't provide a demo for the game, but demos
for stategy games like this seem to be out of style (and it'd be so very
hard to do with a program much smaller thant he actual program). It's a
really good successor for Imperialism II, and a fair substitute for food,
drink, sleep, and work. It also really helps drive home how *big* the
world is. There's a lot more going on than you can hope to follow.

    Joseph Nebus
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in article nebusj.1062426223 DeleteThis @vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu, Joseph Nebus at
nebusj DeleteThis @rpi.edu wrote on 9/1/03 7:39 AM:

 > It's a shame they couldn't provide a demo for the game, but demos for stategy
 > games like this seem to be out of style (and it'd be so very hard to do with a
 > program much smaller thant he actual program).

I wonder if they might do what Battlefront has done with their CM demos.
They include the entire program but jimmy it so that it will only run the
two or three scenarios included.

Of course, it is a BIG download. AIR, it took something like six hours on my
56k connection (which is actually 48k).

Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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