House Power Failures and Mac

In article
<alpine.OSX.1.00.0802102052300.93076 RemoveThis @hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org>,
Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody RemoveThis @goldmark.org> wrote:

> In <jollyroger-B0BE67.16003010022008 RemoveThis @70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net>,
> Jolly...:
>
> > Yep. I would use the built-in support, only it doesn't allow you to
> > shut down *multiple* computers that are connected to the UPS. apcupsd
> > lets you do that, and is more configurable as well.
>
> At the moment, only one Mac shares a UPS with another machine. So I will
> keep apcupsd for that. But this will make things simpler for the other
> Macs.

apcupsd's ability to trigger shutdown of multiple computers is really
cool. And you can fairly easily override / extend the default apcupsd
actions. For instance, I've customized mine to do more of a graceful
shutdown by quitting Retrospect and other running applications, logging
out, and scheduling a power on event with the power manager before
finally shutting down so that when the power returns, the computer will
start up automatically.

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JR
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In article
<alpine.OSX.1.00.0802102049250.93076 RemoveThis @hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org>,
Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody RemoveThis @goldmark.org> wrote:

> In <rowbotth-808C2A.12581910022008 RemoveThis @news.newsgroupdirect.com>, Rowbotth wrote:
>
> > And another benefit to the APC UPS that I have is that they plug into
> > the Mac with a USB Cable, and it goes right into the Energy Saver under
> > System Preferences, and it sees the UPS I have.
>
> Wow. I've been using apcupsd on a couple of systems for no good reason if
> this is built into System Preferences.

It really depends on your needs. If you need to shut down multiple
computers connected to the UPS, or you wish to customize the way the Mac
shuts down, then apcupsd is preferable. What you get with the built-in
support is very basic.

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JR
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In article
<5faf514d-8fe3-4cd2-bba5-3dfd50c383e0 DeleteThis @d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
w_tom <w_tom1 DeleteThis @usa.net> wrote:

> Many forget to see protection as a 'system'. A 'magic box' (ie
> UPS), instead, will provide a solution? Hardly. How did thousands of
> volts enter a building to damage so many ethernet ports? Did anyone
> ask that question, or just speculate? Somehow that silly little one
> inch part will stop what three miles of sky could not? That is the
> myth.

You can talk until you are blue in the face about how you believe the
need for a UPS is a myth, and how it won't protect anything. All that
talk doesn't change the fact that in the past 9 years none of the people
whom I have set up with UPS devices have lost a single Ethernet port,
power supply, etc. - compared to several who lost them prior to that
without UPS devices. Why does it work? I don't know - does it even
matter? If it works, that's good enough for me.

--
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JR
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In article <2008021007531216807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>,
C J Campbell <christophercampbell.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 2008-02-10 05:28:38 -0800, Dudley Henriques <dhenriques.RemoveThis@rcn.com> said:
>
> > I guess I'm a normal home user with an IMac. I've been thinking about
> > how I use the computer vs a potential house power failure and how that
> > might effect the computer if it's on or sleeping when that happens.

> Actually, your computer could be fried even if it was turned off. The
> only sure way to protect your computer is to unplug it. A severe power
> surge can damage any of the components in your computer, including the
> hard drive.

I would just add a few thoughts to that. A proximate jolt of static
electricity can damage sensitive components whether they are plugged in
or not. The ways we have personally experienced damage from static
electricity include static from carpet, hair brushing, and atmospheric
ionization that commonly occurs when a thunderstorm is developing.
Also, it doesn't take much of a power surge to damage components. I've
also read that power surges and fluctuations can have a cumulative
effect on electronics.

[...]
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

I remember an article in Byte where Jerry Pournelle talked about what
happened after a car hit a nearby power pole. He had lots of
electronic equipment and most had some kind of power protector. But
they didn't all work adequately.

Expensive TVs, stereos, and other appliances might be worth protecting
as well.
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In article <u4t0r35852su0krkfp713obkl1ks96kk80 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Howard Brazee <howard RemoveThis @brazee.net> wrote:

> I remember an article in Byte where Jerry Pournelle talked about what
> happened after a car hit a nearby power pole. He had lots of
> electronic equipment and most had some kind of power protector. But
> they didn't all work adequately.
>
> Expensive TVs, stereos, and other appliances might be worth protecting
> as well.

I recall that article, too. In his very unusual case, the accident
managed to cross an interurban feeder with the drop into his house,
delivering something around six or seven thousand volts to his wall
outlets.

No protector you could afford to buy would protect your gear from that.

Isaac
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In article
<jollyroger-D42648.00244511022008 DeleteThis @earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger DeleteThis @pobox.com> wrote:

> In article
> <5faf514d-8fe3-4cd2-bba5-3dfd50c383e0 DeleteThis @d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> w_tom <w_tom1 DeleteThis @usa.net> wrote:
>
> > Many forget to see protection as a 'system'. A 'magic box' (ie
> > UPS), instead, will provide a solution? Hardly. How did thousands of
> > volts enter a building to damage so many ethernet ports? Did anyone
> > ask that question, or just speculate? Somehow that silly little one
> > inch part will stop what three miles of sky could not? That is the
> > myth.
>
> You can talk until you are blue in the face about how you believe the
> need for a UPS is a myth, and how it won't protect anything. All that
> talk doesn't change the fact that in the past 9 years none of the people
> whom I have set up with UPS devices have lost a single Ethernet port,
> power supply, etc. - compared to several who lost them prior to that
> without UPS devices. Why does it work? I don't know - does it even
> matter? If it works, that's good enough for me.

In order to be a fair assessment of whether it "works", you need to
include all the installations out there that have been running for years
and years without UPSs, not just ones where you later added them.

If you do that, you'll probably find that almost all systems survive
just fine without a UPS.

Not saying a UPS is useless, just saying that a system doesn't need one
in order to have a long and reliable lifetime.

Isaac
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In <jollyroger-F6BA44.00092411022008.TakeThisOut@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,...:

> apcupsd's ability to trigger shutdown of multiple computers is really
> cool. And you can fairly easily override / extend the default apcupsd
> actions. For instance, I've customized mine to do more of a graceful
> shutdown by quitting Retrospect and other running applications, logging
> out, and scheduling a power on event with the power manager before
> finally shutting down so that when the power returns, the computer will
> start up automatically.

Would you mind sending me your scripts as models that I could work from?

The reply-to address for this message should work, but also you could just
mail to

jeffrey.TakeThisOut@goldmark.org

Of course if others are interested, you could post the scripts instead of
mailing them.

Cheers,

-j

--
Jeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
http://improve-usenet.org/
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

In article <isw-9D7DD9.09302911022008 DeleteThis @newsgroups.comcast.net>,
isw <isw DeleteThis @witzend.com> wrote:

> In article
> <jollyroger-D42648.00244511022008 DeleteThis @earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger DeleteThis @pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <5faf514d-8fe3-4cd2-bba5-3dfd50c383e0 DeleteThis @d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > w_tom <w_tom1 DeleteThis @usa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Many forget to see protection as a 'system'. A 'magic box' (ie
> > > UPS), instead, will provide a solution? Hardly. How did thousands of
> > > volts enter a building to damage so many ethernet ports? Did anyone
> > > ask that question, or just speculate? Somehow that silly little one
> > > inch part will stop what three miles of sky could not? That is the
> > > myth.
> >
> > You can talk until you are blue in the face about how you believe the
> > need for a UPS is a myth, and how it won't protect anything. All that
> > talk doesn't change the fact that in the past 9 years none of the people
> > whom I have set up with UPS devices have lost a single Ethernet port,
> > power supply, etc. - compared to several who lost them prior to that
> > without UPS devices. Why does it work? I don't know - does it even
> > matter? If it works, that's good enough for me.
>
> In order to be a fair assessment of whether it "works", you need to
> include all the installations out there that have been running for years
> and years without UPSs, not just ones where you later added them.
>
> If you do that, you'll probably find that almost all systems survive
> just fine without a UPS.
>
> Not saying a UPS is useless, just saying that a system doesn't need one
> in order to have a long and reliable lifetime.

I'm tell you experience has shown that is simply not the case in New
Orleans and other areas where electrical storms are prevalent.

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Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
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JR
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

Bill wrote:
> In article <x5qdnac6O9KaYTPanZ2dnUVZ_rignZ2d.TakeThisOut@rcn.net>,
> Dudley Henriques <dhenriques.TakeThisOut@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm a normal home user with an IMac. I've been thinking about
>> how I use the computer vs a potential house power failure and how that
>> might effect the computer if it's on or sleeping when that happens.
>>
>> My system is up for about 18 hours a day; either in use, on the screen
>> saver; or in sleep mode. Sometimes when we go out I'll shut it down in
>> case of a Thunderstorm, but otherwise it's up and running.
>>
>> I let it sleep all night usually and it's here I'm worried about a power
>> failure and what that might do to the Mac.
>>
>>
>> Obviously I could purchase a battery power supply backup system but
>> that's a fairly large expense for a home user.
>>
>> Can you let me in on how some of you deal with this issue?
>>
>> One thing I'd like to know is how my Mac would suffer or not suffer in
>> the event of a house power failure. My PC with Windows was a mess when
>> this happened (twice) but so far I've been lucky with the IMac.
>>
>> If I do get nailed, what's the prospect for damage and are there built
>> in utilities in my OSX that I can run after a failure to help restore
>> things back to normal?
>>
>> How do you other home users deal with this?????
>>
>> Thanks much
>
> Spend the money for a battery backup power supply. They come in a
> variety of sizes and are priced accordingly.
>
> No computer benefits from power failure. Ultimately the hard drive can
> be destroyed by power failure.
>
This is highly unlikely with modern drive technology. It used to be
that a sudden power outage could plough the heads into the platters.
This has not been the case for many years.

It is more likely that the power supply might be damaged over time,
especially as some discrete components dry out over time and their
ratings are occasionally exceeded.

There is also possibility of data loss if the computer is in the middle
of something when the power did something weird. This is less likely
with journaling (or even certain forms of RAID). Again, rare with
modern filesystems (even the rather long-in-the-tooth HFS+).

However, a UPS of some sort offers a certain peace of mind, and
convenience. Make sure you spend the money on one that has standard
replaceable batteries. You will be advised to replace them every 2-3
years, whether you think you have used them or not.
--
clvrmnky <mailto:spamtrap@clevermonkey.org>

Direct replies to this address will be blacklisted. Replace "spamtrap"
with my name to contact me directly.
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

On Feb 11, 1:24 am, Jolly Roger <jollyro....DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:
> You can talk until you are blue in the face about how you believe the
> need for a UPS is a myth, and how it won't protect anything.  All that
> talk doesn't change the fact that in the past 9 years none of the people
> whom I have set up with UPS devices have lost a single Ethernet port,
> power supply, etc. - compared to several who lost them prior to that
> without UPS devices. Why does it work?  I don't know - does it even
> matter? If it works, that's good enough for me.

For accurate reasoning, then other appliances without UPS
'protection' were always damaged. Isw makes this same point.
Observation without fundamental knowledge makes one their own worst
enemy. Why are many other electronics appliances, without that UPS,
not damaged? How many other appliances also protected themselves?
Jolly Roger uses observation while ignoring the exceptions and
engineering principles. Same logic also once proved power lines
created childhood leukemia. Ignoring those 'other' facts was blamed
for that leukemia myth. Reality: 'ethernet ports' with UPSes
protected themselves. Technical facts are two paragraphs below.

Observation without underlying knowledge is called wild
speculation. These principles (how to have a fact) were taught in
junior high school science. One observed homes surrounded by
evergreen trees also suffer no ethernet damage. That proves evergreen
trees provide ethernet protection? - using Jolly Roger logic.

UPS manufacturer does not claim that protection. AC electricity
connects directly to those appliances when UPS is not in battery
backup. Where is protection? Electricity connects directly from AC
mains to computer? Does a relay magically provide protection?
Relay, like evergreen trees, does not provide ethernet port
protection.

Junk science logic, also called selective observation or experience,
also proved Saddam had WMDs.

Where does any UPS manufacture claim this protection? None. Plug-
in UPS for hardware protection is a popular urban myth. When not in
battery backup mode, then a computer connects directly to AC mains -
as if computer was plugged into a wall receptacle. What component
inside that 'magic box' provides ethernet port protection? Component
does not exist - just like Saddam's WMDs. No wonder that UPS
manufacturer also does not recommend evergreen trees. From junior
high school science: observation only creates speculation and is not
even sufficient for a hypothesis. As taugh in junior high science.
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

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 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac 

On Feb 10, 6:33 pm, Clark Martin <cmn....RemoveThis@sonic.net> wrote:
> Aside from surge damage the biggest problem is if the hard drive is
> saving when power goes out.  You can get significant drive corruption in
> that case if you are real unlucky.  But if the drive is spun down
> (including when the computer is asleep) then the only thing you'll lose
> are unsaved changes, stuff you've typed in but haven't saved yet.

Data corruption was one of so many problems with FAT based
filesystems. Better file systems eliminate data corruption. If data
is not properly saved, then better filesystems simply fall back to the
last saved good data. All this done without human intervention.

Meanwhile, if power is lost during an FAT save, then old data may
also be deleted. Just another reason why we ignored Windows 95, et
al, and went right to Windows NT.
 >> Stay informed about: House Power Failures and Mac