Interesting print problem

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:43:19 -0400, ToddAndMargo wrote
(in article <bOidi.677$bn6.405@trnddc03>):

> Hi All,
>
> Thunderbird: v2.0.0.0
> M$ Word for X: SR1
> Mac: 10.4.9
> Office Jet Series: v 2.3.2
>
> I am a Linux and Windows Administrator with
> only a tiny experience in Mac.
>
> I have the most interesting problem with a
> customer's new Mac. I set it up two weeks
> ago with a local Office Jet printer and
> and LPD/LPR link to an HP Laserjet 4050

Oh-oh. Danger, Will Robinson, danger.

When LJ 4050s work properly they're awesome printers. When they misbehave,
they're horrid.

Question 1: have you verified the IP and subnet mask on that LJ 4050?
Sometimes they, ah, drift. Yes, I know they're not supposed to. No, I don't
know why they do... sometimes.

Question 2: did you turn on AppleTalk on _both_ the Mac _and_ the printer?
And, more importantly, did anything in the path between them change, such as
a router or a switch? Some network devices have serious problems with
AppleTalk.

Question 3: I know for absolute _certain_ that HP's drivers for the LJ 4050
under WinNT4 _do not work_ over the network... but that if you use the
drivers for the Lj 4100 instead, they work. (You don't want to know how long
it took to figure that out. You really don't.) You might want to check which
drivers are installed for network printing on the Windows side. Perhaps it
might be a good idea to put the LJ 4100 drivers on, instead.

QUestion 4: is the printer directly connected to the network, or is it shared
from a computer, and if shared, what OS is the computer running? (See 3
above...)

> printer. All (Thunderbird, Word, etc.)
> printed fine when I left.
>
> The user has had at it for two weeks now
> and she has uncovered, possibly created
> the most interesting of printing problems:

I suspect a combination of user messing about and HP printer driver madness.

>
> 1) it will not print at all to the LPD/LPR
> printer, AND

Why am I not surprised?

>
> 2) it will not print to the local Office
> Jet from Thunderbird or M$ Word. It acts
> like you pressed the Cancel button, instead
> of the Print button: no pop ups, no printing
> eye candy, no nothing. But,

That means that the print job is not even being submitted, which is Very
Strange Indeed(tm).

>
> 3) she CAN print to the Office Jet with the
> rest of her programs (mostly Adobe stuff),
> with all the ink level pop ups, printing
> eye candy, everything.
>
> How in the world can you print with some
> programs and not with others? Very, very
> fascinating!

Sounds like HP printer drivers strike again. Nothing would surprise me with
an HP printer. However, a quick fix _can_ be to reset the print system on the
Mac side. (Launch Printer Setup Utility, which is found in the
/Applications/Utility folder. Select 'Reset Print System' from the Printer
Setup Utility menu.) You'll have to reinstall the printers, but that
shouldn't be a problem, the drivers will still be there, you just have to
have the system recognise the printers.

If a simple reset doesn't do the job, time for heavy artillery: proceed to
MacUpDate or VersionTracker and download Printer Setup Repair and apply it.

>
> How do I fix it?
>
> Many thanks,
> -T



--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem 

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:26:05 -0400, Fred McKenzie wrote
(in article <fmmck-8BC5E1.14260418062007.TakeThisOut@nntp.aioe.org>):

> In article <bOidi.677$bn6.405@trnddc03>,
> ToddAndMargo <ToddAndMargo.TakeThisOut@NoSpam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> 1) it will not print at all to the LPD/LPR
>> printer, AND
>
> T-
>
> You could have two separate problems. With regard to the LPD/LPR
> printing, it would seem to be a network connectivity problem. Have you
> verified that the HP 4050 still has the same IP address?
>
> I think the HP 4050 also has AppleTalk capability, if the option is
> turned on.

And if there's enough RAM on the printer. And if PostScript is live.

> (Also, some Ethernet routers won't pass AppleTalk packets.)
> If AppleTalk was enabled and showed up in the Printer Setup Utility's
> Add window, it might be a more reliable way to print. AppleTalk also
> allows some printer errors such as out-of-paper, to be reported to the
> Macintosh.
>
> I've never encountered your other problem with some programs canceling
> the print job. I would run one of the programs, and see if File - Page
> Setup was configured for the Office Jet. It is probably set for "Any
> Printer", but changing it to the Office Jet may straighten it out. It
> will at least let you know if that program has the Office Jet in its
> list of available printers.

If he was able to use it in the first place, it's on the print list.

>
> Fred



--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem 

Fred McKenzie wrote:
> In article <bOidi.677$bn6.405@trnddc03>,
> ToddAndMargo <ToddAndMargo.RemoveThis@NoSpam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> 1) it will not print at all to the LPD/LPR
>> printer, AND
>
> T-
>
> You could have two separate problems. With regard to the LPD/LPR
> printing, it would seem to be a network connectivity problem. Have you
> verified that the HP 4050 still has the same IP address?

The printer is accessed from a Linux CUPS server. All
the Windows comp[uters can still print to it.

>
> I think the HP 4050 also has AppleTalk capability, if the option is
> turned on. (Also, some Ethernet routers won't pass AppleTalk packets.)
> If AppleTalk was enabled and showed up in the Printer Setup Utility's
> Add window, it might be a more reliable way to print. AppleTalk also
> allows some printer errors such as out-of-paper, to be reported to the
> Macintosh.

I am not sure CUPS likes Apple Talk. I could print directly to
it, but ...

>
> I've never encountered your other problem with some programs canceling
> the print job. I would run one of the programs, and see if File - Page
> Setup was configured for the Office Jet. It is probably set for "Any
> Printer", but changing it to the Office Jet may straighten it out. It
> will at least let you know if that program has the Office Jet in its
> list of available printers.
>
> Fred

I tried the page set up.

Also, interesting: if I go into Thunderbird's "Print Preview",
I get a blank page.

Thank you for the tips,
-T
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem 

J.J. O'Shea wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:43:19 -0400, ToddAndMargo wrote
> (in article <bOidi.677$bn6.405@trnddc03>):
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Thunderbird: v2.0.0.0
>> M$ Word for X: SR1
>> Mac: 10.4.9
>> Office Jet Series: v 2.3.2
>>
>> I am a Linux and Windows Administrator with
>> only a tiny experience in Mac.
>>
>> I have the most interesting problem with a
>> customer's new Mac. I set it up two weeks
>> ago with a local Office Jet printer and
>> and LPD/LPR link to an HP Laserjet 4050
>
> Oh-oh. Danger, Will Robinson, danger.
>
> When LJ 4050s work properly they're awesome printers. When they misbehave,
> they're horrid.
>
> Question 1: have you verified the IP and subnet mask on that LJ 4050?
> Sometimes they, ah, drift. Yes, I know they're not supposed to. No, I don't
> know why they do... sometimes.

It is a Linux CUPS server. All the M$ computers still print to it.

>
> Question 2: did you turn on AppleTalk on _both_ the Mac _and_ the printer?
> And, more importantly, did anything in the path between them change, such as
> a router or a switch? Some network devices have serious problems with
> AppleTalk.

I am not sure CUPS will read Apple Talk. I could print directly, but
that would bypass the queue on the CUPS server.

> Question 3: I know for absolute _certain_ that HP's drivers for the LJ 4050
> under WinNT4 _do not work_ over the network... but that if you use the
> drivers for the Lj 4100 instead, they work. (You don't want to know how long
> it took to figure that out. You really don't.) You might want to check which
> drivers are installed for network printing on the Windows side. Perhaps it
> might be a good idea to put the LJ 4100 drivers on, instead.


I will try!

> QUestion 4: is the printer directly connected to the network, or is it shared
> from a computer, and if shared, what OS is the computer running? (See 3
> above...)

The 4050 is on a jet direct card. The Office Jet is
connected via USB. The Office Jet is the only one
that prints, except it won't print Thunderbird
or M$ Office.

>
>> printer. All (Thunderbird, Word, etc.)
>> printed fine when I left.
>>
>> The user has had at it for two weeks now
>> and she has uncovered, possibly created
>> the most interesting of printing problems:
>
> I suspect a combination of user messing about and HP printer driver madness.
>
>> 1) it will not print at all to the LPD/LPR
>> printer, AND
>
> Why am I not surprised?
>
>> 2) it will not print to the local Office
>> Jet from Thunderbird or M$ Word. It acts
>> like you pressed the Cancel button, instead
>> of the Print button: no pop ups, no printing
>> eye candy, no nothing. But,
>
> That means that the print job is not even being submitted, which is Very
> Strange Indeed(tm).

It is fascinating, when you think about it.

>
>> 3) she CAN print to the Office Jet with the
>> rest of her programs (mostly Adobe stuff),
>> with all the ink level pop ups, printing
>> eye candy, everything.
>>
>> How in the world can you print with some
>> programs and not with others? Very, very
>> fascinating!
>
> Sounds like HP printer drivers strike again. Nothing would surprise me with
> an HP printer. However, a quick fix _can_ be to reset the print system on the
> Mac side. (Launch Printer Setup Utility, which is found in the
> /Applications/Utility folder. Select 'Reset Print System' from the Printer
> Setup Utility menu.) You'll have to reinstall the printers, but that
> shouldn't be a problem, the drivers will still be there, you just have to
> have the system recognise the printers.
>
> If a simple reset doesn't do the job, time for heavy artillery: proceed to
> MacUpDate or VersionTracker and download Printer Setup Repair and apply it.
>

This I will do. I am out at the customer's site on Thursday. I will
report back.

Thank you!

-T
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem 

On Jun 19, 12:04 pm, ToddAndMargo <ToddAndMa... DeleteThis @NoSpam.verizon.net>
wrote:
> J.J. O'Shea wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:43:19 -0400, ToddAndMargo wrote
> > (in article <bOidi.677$bn6.405@trnddc03>):
>
> >> Hi All,
>
> >> Thunderbird: v2.0.0.0
> >> M$ Word for X: SR1
> >> Mac: 10.4.9
> >> Office Jet Series: v 2.3.2
>
> >> I am a Linux and Windows Administrator with
> >> only a tiny experience in Mac.
>
> >> I have the most interesting problem with a
> >> customer's new Mac. I set it up two weeks
> >> ago with a local Office Jet printer and
> >> and LPD/LPR link to an HP Laserjet 4050
>
> > Oh-oh. Danger, Will Robinson, danger.
>
> > When LJ 4050s work properly they're awesome printers. When they misbehave,
> > they're horrid.
>
> > Question 1: have you verified the IP and subnet mask on that LJ 4050?
> > Sometimes they, ah, drift. Yes, I know they're not supposed to. No, I don't
> > know why they do... sometimes.
>
> It is a Linux CUPS server. All the M$ computers still print to it.
>
>
>
> > Question 2: did you turn on AppleTalk on _both_ the Mac _and_ the printer?
> > And, more importantly, did anything in the path between them change, such as
> > a router or a switch? Some network devices have serious problems with
> > AppleTalk.
>
> I am not sure CUPS will read Apple Talk. I could print directly, but
> that would bypass the queue on the CUPS server.
>
> > Question 3: I know for absolute _certain_ that HP's drivers for the LJ 4050
> > under WinNT4 _do not work_ over the network... but that if you use the
> > drivers for the Lj 4100 instead, they work. (You don't want to know how long
> > it took to figure that out. You really don't.) You might want to check which
> > drivers are installed for network printing on the Windows side. Perhaps it
> > might be a good idea to put the LJ 4100 drivers on, instead.
>
> I will try!
>
> > QUestion 4: is the printer directly connected to the network, or is it shared
> > from a computer, and if shared, what OS is the computer running? (See 3
> > above...)
>
> The 4050 is on a jet direct card. The Office Jet is
> connected via USB. The Office Jet is the only one
> that prints, except it won't print Thunderbird
> or M$ Office.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> printer. All (Thunderbird, Word, etc.)
> >> printed fine when I left.
>
> >> The user has had at it for two weeks now
> >> and she has uncovered, possibly created
> >> the most interesting of printing problems:
>
> > I suspect a combination of user messing about and HP printer driver madness.
>
> >> 1) it will not print at all to the LPD/LPR
> >> printer, AND
>
> > Why am I not surprised?
>
> >> 2) it will not print to the local Office
> >> Jet from Thunderbird or M$ Word. It acts
> >> like you pressed the Cancel button, instead
> >> of the Print button: no pop ups, no printing
> >> eye candy, no nothing. But,
>
> > That means that the print job is not even being submitted, which is Very
> > Strange Indeed(tm).
>
> It is fascinating, when you think about it.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> 3) she CAN print to the Office Jet with the
> >> rest of her programs (mostly Adobe stuff),
> >> with all the ink level pop ups, printing
> >> eye candy, everything.
>
> >> How in the world can you print with some
> >> programs and not with others? Very, very
> >> fascinating!
>
> > Sounds like HP printer drivers strike again. Nothing would surprise me with
> > an HP printer. However, a quick fix _can_ be to reset the print system on the
> > Mac side. (Launch Printer Setup Utility, which is found in the
> > /Applications/Utility folder. Select 'Reset Print System' from the Printer
> > Setup Utility menu.) You'll have to reinstall the printers, but that
> > shouldn't be a problem, the drivers will still be there, you just have to
> > have the system recognise the printers.
>
> > If a simple reset doesn't do the job, time for heavy artillery: proceed to
> > MacUpDate or VersionTracker and download Printer Setup Repair and apply it.
>
> This I will do. I am out at the customer's site on Thursday. I will
> report back.
>
> Thank you!
>
> -T

Okay, I changed the LPD printer to laser jet 4.

1) I reset the printers: no symptom change

2) I downloaded and ran the Printer Setup Repair; no
symptom change (did its reset too).

I can still print from Acrobat

I can print test pages to both the printer from CUPS.

What in the world is going on here?

Many thanks,
-T
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem 

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:15:26 -0400, ToddAndMargo.DeleteThis@verizon.net wrote
(in article <1182471326.149107.322580.DeleteThis@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>):

> Okay, I changed the LPD printer to laser jet 4.
>
> 1) I reset the printers: no symptom change
>
> 2) I downloaded and ran the Printer Setup Repair; no
> symptom change (did its reset too).
>
> I can still print from Acrobat

that means that the print system is set correctly.

>
> I can print test pages to both the printer from CUPS.

That means that the printer drivers are working.

>
> What in the world is going on here?

Possible application problem. Generate a new user, see if that new user can
print from Word and the other problematic apps. If you can, then the prefs on
the old user are bad, go to the <user>/Library/Preference folder and delete
the prefs (and any pref folders) for those apps. If you can't, then the app
itself has a problem, reinstall. If you still have problems, post again,
'cause then it's gonna be something out of the ordinary.

--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem 

> Possible application problem. Generate a new user, see if that new user can
> print from Word and the other problematic apps. If you can, then the prefs on
> the old user are bad, go to the <user>/Library/Preference folder and delete
> the prefs (and any pref folders) for those apps. If you can't, then the app
> itself has a problem, reinstall. If you still have problems, post again,
> 'cause then it's gonna be something out of the ordinary.


I created a second user. Everything printed fine from it.
So, I fooled around with the original user's Preferences
and nothing would change. Well, nothing except having
to reset the preferences. No symptom change.

So, I removed and saved the original user. Then recreated
it. Word started printing fine. Thunderbird required
me removing all "printer" options from its prefs.js.
Then Thunderbird printed fine.

Firefox's fonts went weird. So, after a great deal
of fussing, Firefox could finally be read. Safari
is a tragic mess -- crashes every three web pages
or so. But, at least Firefox works. (I have
never had much luck with Safari. It looks nice,
seems plenty quick, but crashes frequently.)

I wrote the user a note to try printing after
each preference change she makes to restore
things back to the way she likes. She comes back to
work tomorrow. My fear is that she will stumble
back on whatever started this all.

This problem was fascinating. If you can print
in M$ or Linux from any program, you can usually
print from them all, If not, the program is corrupted.
Apple does have its quirks! This was a fun problem
to fix. Wow, what a culture shock from Linux/XFce
to Apple. So similar but so different. Have
to twist your mind around to the different
culture, but when you do, its gets interesting.

Thank you for all the help!
-T
 >> Stay informed about: Interesting print problem