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Next: General Discussion: Looking for technical manuals
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:52 pm
Post subject: Mac Family Ref Manual
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>programmer>misc (more info?)
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Hello folks,
Well, thanks for some replies, I got Macintosh Family Reference Manual
(1988) and reviewed them. They gave very useful information and is good for
emulation developement like vMac emulator. I learned that book covers Mac
128k, 512k, Plus, SE, and II. All 128k, 512k, Plus and SE uses same 24-bit
address mapping. Mac II uses both 24-bit and 32-bit address mapping but
different 24-bit mapping (for example, Mac II ROM image starts on 0x80000
instead of 0x40000), etc.
I was looking for Mac II video specs but it refers to see designing cards
reference manuals. Does that manual provides complete information about Mac
II video programming?
I now have a question for you about beyond Mac II series. How about
Centris, and Quanda, etc? Does Centris and Quanda uses same Mac II address
mapping?
How about Performa on both m68k, and ppc processors? etc....
How about latest revisions about Mac Family Ref Manual beyond 1988 edition?
Thanks!
Tim |
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External
Since: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 28, 4:52 pm, "Tim Stark" <fswo... DeleteThis @nospam-comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> Well, thanks for some replies, I got Macintosh Family Reference Manual
> (1988) and reviewed them. They gave very useful information and is good for
> emulation developement like vMac emulator. I learned that book covers Mac
> 128k, 512k, Plus, SE, and II. All 128k, 512k, Plus and SE uses same 24-bit
> address mapping. Mac II uses both 24-bit and 32-bit address mapping but
> different 24-bit mapping (for example, Mac II ROM image starts on 0x80000
> instead of 0x40000), etc.
>
> I was looking for Mac II video specs but it refers to see designing cards
> reference manuals. Does that manual provides complete information about Mac
> II video programming?
>
> I now have a question for you about beyond Mac II series. How about
> Centris, and Quanda, etc? Does Centris and Quanda uses same Mac II address
> mapping?
>
> How about Performa on both m68k, and ppc processors? etc....
>
> How about latest revisions about Mac Family Ref Manual beyond 1988 edition?
>
> Thanks!
> Tim
I don't know that it'll help, but the (Addison-Wesley?) published
manuals ceased right around that timeframe. Subsequently, each new
hardware model was documented in tech notes. I had several binders
full of 'em, those days. Those tech notes might still be available on
Apple's dev site; recently I picked up the tech notes covering my
dad's old Performa.
BTW I don't recall any Apple documentation regarding the PMMU, we
referred to Motorola documentation (I was writing SCSI drivers back
then). Good luck, you haven't described your project, but I sure loved
working with those old Macs and it's nice to hear that someone is
keeping them alive! |
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External
Since: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 173
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<9502439c-ddd4-4508-b20f-71d773077e76.RemoveThis@d61g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Melodious Thunk <thunk.melodious.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know that it'll help, but the (Addison-Wesley?) published
> manuals ceased right around that timeframe. Subsequently, each new
> hardware model was documented in tech notes. I had several binders
> full of 'em, those days. Those tech notes might still be available on
> Apple's dev site; recently I picked up the tech notes covering my
> dad's old Performa.
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/hardware2.html>
Reinder >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Reinder Verlinde" <reinder DeleteThis @verlinde.invalid> wrote in message
news:reinder-3C8D60.18130629112007@fl-69-69-134-194.sta.embarqhsd.net...
> In article
> <9502439c-ddd4-4508-b20f-71d773077e76 DeleteThis @d61g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> Melodious Thunk <thunk.melodious DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/hardware2.html>
Ok, thanks for info. I looked into that and learned that later models like
centris and quandra uses same Mac II address mapping. They recommend to
look at manual called "Guide to the Macintosh Family Reference Manual (2nd
edition)". I have first edition. What is difference between 1st (1988)
and 2nd (1990) edition manuals?
Thanks.
Tim >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: May 16, 2004
Posts: 622
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> On Nov 28, 4:52 pm, "Tim Stark" <fswo... DeleteThis @nospam-comcast.net> wrote:
> > I was looking for Mac II video specs but it refers to see designing
> > cards reference manuals. Does that manual provides complete
> > information about Mac II video programming?
No such manual was ever produced. The 'Inside Mac' series stops with
volume V, which was a description of all that was new at the time of the
Mac II, including the slot manager. The best hardware documentation that
came out after that as all in the form of notes and never published in a
proper book.
> > I now have a question for you about beyond Mac II series. How about
> > Centris, and Quanda, etc? Does Centris and Quanda uses same Mac II
> > address mapping?
> >
> > How about Performa on both m68k, and ppc processors? etc....
No no no no no and no. By the time of the Macintosh IIfx, Apple had
already developed the idea of System calls you could use to find out where
the video was mapped to memory. By the time of the Quadras it was no
longer possible to rely on memory-mapped video: you had to use system
calls to write to video unless you fancied learning how each separate
video card worked, and if you did that you found they all worked
differently.
Ooooh. CLUT. A/ROSE. NewGWorld. SLOTIRQ. Nasty.
Here's a typical piece of advice that you should depend on System calls
and not try to talk directly to hardware:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=19276
You can find the really old hardware TechNotes here:
http://developer.apple.com/technicalnotes/LegacyTechnologies/idxHardwareDri
vers-date.html
which includes the sort of thing you're asking about, but isn't actually
going to give you useful numbers or methods
Simon.
--
http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Simon Slavin" <slavins.delete.these.four.words.DeleteThis@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote
in message news:fiq3in$9lb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
>> On Nov 28, 4:52 pm, "Tim Stark" <fswo....DeleteThis@nospam-comcast.net> wrote:
>> > I was looking for Mac II video specs but it refers to see designing
>> > cards reference manuals. Does that manual provides complete
>> > information about Mac II video programming?
>
> No such manual was ever produced. The 'Inside Mac' series stops with
> volume V, which was a description of all that was new at the time of the
> Mac II, including the slot manager. The best hardware documentation that
> came out after that as all in the form of notes and never published in a
> proper book.
Well, how about Mac emulation? Basillsk II supports Mac 2 emulation
includes video. That's why I am looking for some information for emulation
development. Thanks.
Tim >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: Feb 18, 2004
Posts: 173
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:09 am
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <fiq3in$9lb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>,
Simon Slavin <slavins.delete.these.four.words.RemoveThis@hearsay.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> The 'Inside Mac' series stops with volume V
That is incorrect. There is a Volume VI. However, it is different from
the other volumes, in that it describes what is in the OS (System 7).
The other volumes all appeared to describe the software that shipped
with new hardware.
> By the time of the Macintosh IIfx, Apple had already developed the idea
> of System calls you could use to find out where the video was mapped to
> memory
To quote volume VI: "You should never access hardware directly".
Reinder >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 188
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <fiq3in$9lb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>,
Simon Slavin <slavins.delete.these.four.words.DeleteThis@hearsay.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Nov 28, 4:52 pm, "Tim Stark" <fswo....DeleteThis@nospam-comcast.net> wrote:
>> > I was looking for Mac II video specs but it refers to see designing
>> > cards reference manuals. Does that manual provides complete
>> > information about Mac II video programming?
>
>No such manual was ever produced. The 'Inside Mac' series stops with
>volume V, which was a description of all that was new at the time of the
>Mac II, including the slot manager. The best hardware documentation that
>came out after that as all in the form of notes and never published in a
>proper book.
There is indeed a "Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh"
manual. And it does have a lot of information about Mac II video
programming. What I did when writing an emulator is put in a dummy
driver, and trap all the calls to the driver routines in the
emulator.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one. >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Matthew T. Russotto" <russotto.RemoveThis@grace.speakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:-fudnQSXj5M7xcXanZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> There is indeed a "Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh"
> manual. And it does have a lot of information about Mac II video
> programming. What I did when writing an emulator is put in a dummy
> driver, and trap all the calls to the driver routines in the
> emulator.
Hmmm. I will look into that. Do you have to write your own video emulation
and dummy drivers for Mac II emulator? How does Linux for m68k access Mac
II video cards directly or via firmware?
How SuperSpectrum/24 card? etc...
Thanks!
Tim >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 188
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Mac Family Ref Manual [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <KeOdndlUft1pOsHanZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d DeleteThis @comcast.com>,
Tim Stark <fsword7 DeleteThis @nospam-comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Matthew T. Russotto" <russotto DeleteThis @grace.speakeasy.net> wrote in message
>news:-fudnQSXj5M7xcXanZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
>> There is indeed a "Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh"
>> manual. And it does have a lot of information about Mac II video
>> programming. What I did when writing an emulator is put in a dummy
>> driver, and trap all the calls to the driver routines in the
>> emulator.
>
>Hmmm. I will look into that. Do you have to write your own video emulation
>and dummy drivers for Mac II emulator? How does Linux for m68k access Mac
>II video cards directly or via firmware?
>
>How SuperSpectrum/24 card? etc...
I have no idea about Linux for m68k. I think I emulated a basic 8-bit
card, not a 24 bit card, but it has been a while.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one. >> Stay informed about: Mac Family Ref Manual |
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