Are Macs really better than PCs?

In article , Steve
Bennetch wrote:

 > I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
 > and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I
 > see people having problems doing things on a Mac that are
 > simple to do on a PC. For instance, recovering deleted files.
 > On a PC, you just go to the Recycle Bin, find the file and restore it.
 > On a Mac, you have to BUY third party software to achieve this
 > fundamental task (excuse me?). Also, there is no uninstall feature.
 > PCs handle all the details for uninstalling an app. On a Mac, you
 > have to know where all the different files are stored, and manually
 > delete them.

After you empty the recycle bin then what do you do? If the trash has
not been emptied then you can of course restore the file on a Mac. The
third party tools are for after empting it, the same you would need for
a PC. As for uninstall the process is not as complete as you might
think on a PC. A trip to the registry will make that apparent. However
if you choose not to get everything on a Mac it won't affect your
system. Not deleting the shareware game from the registry that you
tried out three years ago will affect your PC.

 > These things concern me. I thought Macs were supposed to be easier
 > to use than PCs. Can any of you Mac users give me any arguments that
 > would back up the hype? In other words, what can a Mac do that a PC can't,
 > or what can a Mac do easier than a PC can?

That's more of a broad based advocacy type question which I don't get
into. A computer is a tool and you use the one that suits your needs.
If you use a PC then your first experiance with a Mac will seem foreign
and you'll think the PC is better. The reverse is true for predominatly
Mac users. Use both and you'll judge each on their own merits instead
of a constant comparision between the two.

 > Like I said, I'm thinking about getting one, because some music creation
 > software I'm interested in only runs on a Mac. But if its going to
 > give me headaches doing routine tasks, I might just stick with the PC.

Reason enough to get one. The headaches you fear won't materialize.

--
Christopher S. Moore
usenetspamtrap.RemoveThis@mooregraphics.us
Email replies must begin with "Re: " or be killed<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

In article , Steve
Bennetch wrote:

 > I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
 > and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I
 > see people having problems doing things on a Mac that are
 > simple to do on a PC. For instance, recovering deleted files.
 > On a PC, you just go to the Recycle Bin, find the file and restore it.

What happens if you have emptied the recycle bin though?

 > On a Mac, you have to BUY third party software to achieve this
 > fundamental task (excuse me?).

If you haven't emptied the trash, you can simply restore it by dragging
it out. Or selecting 'Undo' if it was the last action.

 > Also, there is no uninstall feature.
 > PCs handle all the details for uninstalling an app. On a Mac, you
 > have to know where all the different files are stored, and manually
 > delete them.
 >
 > These things concern me. I thought Macs were supposed to be easier
 > to use than PCs. Can any of you Mac users give me any arguments that
 > would back up the hype? In other words, what can a Mac do that a PC can't,
 > or what can a Mac do easier than a PC can?

It can run certain music software only available for the Mac...

 > Like I said, I'm thinking about getting one, because some music creation
 > software I'm interested in only runs on a Mac. But if its going to
 > give me headaches doing routine tasks, I might just stick with the PC.

Routine tasks on a Mac won't give you any more headaches than a Windows
machine. Obviously, there will be different ways of doing things, but
overall you should find the experience easier once you have learn't it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

In article , Steve
Bennetch wrote:

 > I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
 > and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I
 > see people having problems doing things on a Mac that are
 > simple to do on a PC. For instance, recovering deleted files.
 > On a PC, you just go to the Recycle Bin, find the file and restore it.
 > On a Mac, you have to BUY third party software to achieve this
 > fundamental task (excuse me?).
Fundamental? What you are describing is a new feature of Windows.
And when users talk of having to recover the file, they are talking
about recovering the file AFTER ther trash has been emptied -- and you
still need a third-party utility to do that in the Windows world, too.

 > Also, there is no uninstall feature.
Feature?
Under Mac, you've never needed an uninstall utility because installers
don't hide parts and don't write system configuration changes.
Under Mac OS, it is the publisher's responsibility to provide an
Un-install function (right in the installer options) for their
products.
That's FAR more appropriate, and much smarter, than having any
third-party tool do it.
But again, since Mac software doesn't install junk all over like
Windows apps, you would usually just delete the tool or folder and
you'd be done.

 > PCs handle all the details for uninstalling an app.
That's a LAUGH! You mean Add/Remove? if it works (and it often doesn't)
it ALWAYS leaves stuff behind -- and those alterations are often to the
registry, which is both critical and obtuse.

 > On a Mac, you
 > have to know where all the different files are stored, and manually
 > delete them.
Hardly. All the different files are usually just contents of the
immediate folder. If other parts are installed, the installer tools has
an Uninstll option.

 > These things concern me. I thought Macs were supposed to be easier
 > to use than PCs. Can any of you Mac users give me any arguments that
 > would back up the hype? In other words, what can a Mac do that a PC can't,
 > or what can a Mac do easier than a PC can?
Have you ever had to look for system/OS parts? Edit the registry? Ever
had a startup problem? needed to update a specific part? how often did
you feel compelled to update your OS? How often did you feel you didn't
have any choice? How about security? Ever had a virus? Trojan? Worm?
Spyware? Pop-up windows? Messenger ads? When you learned how to do
something, did it seem arcane and obtuse and programming-oriented? Have
you ever had to type in a command line? Ever had to configure hardware?
How about system recovery? difficult backups? trouble restoring files?

ALL of those would be forgotten considerations.

Better, how often do you feel like you are doing things the Windows
way? Ever had to learn how to do something? Ever felt like you were
limited by how the computer needed to work?

Listen, the reason people like Macs is mostly because you don't have to
do everything someone else's way, and it's easier to do what you want.
You don't think much about the computer -- you only think about what it
is you are going to do next.

 > Like I said, I'm thinking about getting one, because some music creation
 > software I'm interested in only runs on a Mac. But if its going to
 > give me headaches doing routine tasks, I might just stick with the PC.
In spite of all the Mac benefits, it is often easiest just to stick
with what you know. Certainly all the hardware you can get today is
decent.
Microsoft makes the difference for me -- by a LOT. I know for sure that
they will make sure I pay through every orifice for everything that
they want to do to me. They don't care what happens to me, how much I
have to pay, how much I have to work to keep things running, and they
will beat me over the head with reminders and logos informing me how
important Microsoft is to my day.
And if you read Microsoft's plans for the future, you would really be
scared.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

"Mitch" wrote in message



 >
  > > I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
  > > and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I

I'm a PC Tech/Network Engineer and for the past several months I've been
studying Macs.
In my opinion, the real drawback to Macs are there price and hardware
availability.
For example, there are not as many video cards available for Macs. But, the
hardware
available is on a par with or better than a PC, actually, better.

The OS is no comparison, OS X outshines XP is every respect. It's on a
modified version
of FreeBSD, one the best Unix flavors. Not only has Apple done a great job
with BSD, but
with Quartz, Cocoa and Extreme there graphics and GUI are far superior to
XPs. One last note, for
me and other Linux/Unix enthusiasts Mac offers the best of both worlds. You
can run GNU apps
on OS X and I've even heard of Linux been run.

In summary, the real advantage, for me, is having a great consumer OS on top
of a hardcore OS
where I can, for example, run all sorts of network packet analysers. And
lastly, there are plenty of Mac
resources on the net which makes up for the dearth of traditional Mac
support (e.g. retail outlets).
In any case, I'm in the process of becoming a Macophile. Hope this helped.

john<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

Thank you for your responses.
I've decided to get the 12in. Powerbook. I just can't
resist that OS X interface (very slick). I'll still keep
my PC for my work related stuff (can't make a total change just yet),
and I'll use the Mac for all my creative stuff. Thanks John for the
tip about Mac OS X The Missing Manual, flying blind is scary.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

In article ,
"john" <vze4j6mv.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:





  > >
   > > > I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
   > > > and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I
 >
 > I'm a PC Tech/Network Engineer and for the past several months I've been
 > studying Macs.
 > In my opinion, the real drawback to Macs are there price and hardware
 > availability.

Name a peripheral that is not available for the macos.

And as has been shown over and over and over again, Macs have a higher
initial purchase price, but you make it back in spades with reduced
maintenance and repair costs, not to mention drastically better
operating efficiencey (i.e. you get far more done in less time)

 > For example, there are not as many video cards available for Macs. But, the
 > hardware
 > available is on a par with or better than a PC, actually, better.

Yes it is. And why would anyone want more than one video card anyway?


 >
 > The OS is no comparison, OS X outshines XP is every respect. It's on a
 > modified version
 > of FreeBSD, one the best Unix flavors. Not only has Apple done a great job
 > with BSD, but
 > with Quartz, Cocoa and Extreme there graphics and GUI are far superior to
 > XPs. One last note, for
 > me and other Linux/Unix enthusiasts Mac offers the best of both worlds. You
 > can run GNU apps
 > on OS X and I've even heard of Linux been run.
 >
 > In summary, the real advantage, for me, is having a great consumer OS on top
 > of a hardcore OS
 > where I can, for example, run all sorts of network packet analysers. And
 > lastly, there are plenty of Mac
 > resources on the net which makes up for the dearth of traditional Mac
 > support (e.g. retail outlets).
 > In any case, I'm in the process of becoming a Macophile. Hope this helped.
 >
 > john
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

What I meant to indicate was whereas you can go almost anywhere and buy pc
hardware and peripherals mac hardware and peripherals
are not as available in retail outlets. For example, in Manhattan where I
am, buying for a pc there are literally 100s of outlets to choose from,
but for Macs you are limited to a handful. This is not an indictment, but a
reflection of Mac's market share.
And why would anyone want more than one video card, lets start with dual
head systems for a start where a dedicated card to each monitor
is better than a dual headed card.
And lastly, I'm on your side. But as pc is not a perfect world, neither is
Mac. Losing all your data on a firewire HDD, for instance.
Please no flame here, I'm just trying to give an objective opinion.

john

"Carl Witthoft" wrote in message



 >




   > > >
   > > > > I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
   > > > > and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I
  > >
  > > I'm a PC Tech/Network Engineer and for the past several months I've been
  > > studying Macs.
  > > In my opinion, the real drawback to Macs are there price and hardware
  > > availability.
 >
 > Name a peripheral that is not available for the macos.
 >
 > And as has been shown over and over and over again, Macs have a higher
 > initial purchase price, but you make it back in spades with reduced
 > maintenance and repair costs, not to mention drastically better
 > operating efficiencey (i.e. you get far more done in less time)
 >
  > > For example, there are not as many video cards available for Macs. But,
the
  > > hardware
  > > available is on a par with or better than a PC, actually, better.
 >
 > Yes it is. And why would anyone want more than one video card anyway?
 >
 >
  > >
  > > The OS is no comparison, OS X outshines XP is every respect. It's on a
  > > modified version
  > > of FreeBSD, one the best Unix flavors. Not only has Apple done a great
job
  > > with BSD, but
  > > with Quartz, Cocoa and Extreme there graphics and GUI are far superior
to
  > > XPs. One last note, for
  > > me and other Linux/Unix enthusiasts Mac offers the best of both worlds.
You
  > > can run GNU apps
  > > on OS X and I've even heard of Linux been run.
  > >
  > > In summary, the real advantage, for me, is having a great consumer OS on
top
  > > of a hardcore OS
  > > where I can, for example, run all sorts of network packet analysers. And
  > > lastly, there are plenty of Mac
  > > resources on the net which makes up for the dearth of traditional Mac
  > > support (e.g. retail outlets).
  > > In any case, I'm in the process of becoming a Macophile. Hope this
helped.
  > >
  > > john
  > >
  > ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

On 12/22/03 2:29 PM, in article DuIFb.58$eC.33@nwrdny02.gnilink.net, "john"
wrote:

 > What I meant to indicate was whereas you can go almost anywhere and buy pc
 > hardware and peripherals mac hardware and peripherals
 > are not as available in retail outlets. For example, in Manhattan where I
 > am, buying for a pc there are literally 100s of outlets to choose from,
 > but for Macs you are limited to a handful. This is not an indictment, but a
 > reflection of Mac's market share.
 > And why would anyone want more than one video card, lets start with dual
 > head systems for a start where a dedicated card to each monitor
 > is better than a dual headed card.
 > And lastly, I'm on your side. But as pc is not a perfect world, neither is
 > Mac. Losing all your data on a firewire HDD, for instance.
 > Please no flame here, I'm just trying to give an objective opinion.
 >
 > john
 >

Macs use standard PC memory, standard PC hard drives, and standard PC
optical drives. They would use standard PCI video cards IF THE STUPID
MANUFACTURERS MADE THEM THAT WAY.
--
Brian Ehni<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

In article ,
sbennetch DeleteThis @nyc.rr.com (Steve Bennetch) wrote:

 > Thank you for your responses.
 > I've decided to get the 12in. Powerbook. I just can't
 > resist that OS X interface (very slick). I'll still keep
 > my PC for my work related stuff (can't make a total change just yet),
 > and I'll use the Mac for all my creative stuff. Thanks John for the
 > tip about Mac OS X The Missing Manual, flying blind is scary.

Good choice. OS X is the most ausomly stable OS I've yet encountered.
The only time I've HAD to reboot has been due to some third party
application doing something funny, and even that has been rare and
usually not catastrophic. (For example the Epson scanner leaves a
dialog on screen when I start it up telling me it can't start up. It
starts up anyway and works fine, and neither of the two buttons on
screen do anything. In fact, there is no way to dismiss the dialog
short of a reboot. I've worked literally for hours with the bloody
thing staring me in the face with no problem. It's only when I get sick
of looking at it that I have to reboot.) I think I've only managed to
hang the system once, maybe twice, in about six months of use. This
stability I am sure is directly the result of the OS being based on
Unix, which is well known for its stability.

However some of what has been said in this thread has been in reference
to the Mac classic OS, and has changed somewhat with OS X. As with Unix
the operating system is made up of hundreds of tiny files scattered
around the system folders. Each user has his own descrete folder with
at least a couple of hundred of these mini-files in it, so there is also
a lot of duplication. Therefore more and more installers come with a
uninstall option similar to Windows. (It has always been the case that
some installers came with this feature under classic OS, but as has been
pointed out this was mostly un-necessary.) Still there is much more
flexibility in moving applications around and deleting them than in
Windows. Just do it and more often than not you'll be right. If the
application does leave any preference files these will probably be found
in one of the OS X system folders (including Users), and would get left
behind if you only deleted the main application. Also you can no longer
just copy the system to another partition/drive and expect it to work
straight off as in Classic. It will run as long as the original
installation is on line, but not otherwise. Believe me I've tried it.
It probably is possible to do it if one is willing to spend hours and
days cleaning things up, but it's probably easier just to do a new
install of the system on the second partition/drive. Probably the
weakest, most troublesome, point in Classic was the potential conflict
of system extensions. AFAICT this has been completely eliminated in X.

As a mate once told me, Windows feels something like an old bit of
clothing that has these bits of broken threads hanging it off it and
going nowhere. Mac OS feels like a brand new, expensive garment just
off the shelf where every thread begins and ends in its proper place.
In fact with a little time, you can make that garment into a taylor made
one just for you.

BTW due to my work I use both system extensively, Windows with most of
my clients, Mac Classic for a few of them, and MacOS X at my home
office. I had thought I would become resigned to Windows, but it has in
fact gone the other direction. I now hate it with a passion, from hard
experience. Unfortunately some of the company conduct describing
Microsoft equally applies to Apple Computer. What can you do?

As for market share, this is entirely due to Apple Computer's historical
stupidity (mostly Steve Jobs) on the marketing side, and to intentional
decisions not to allow third party system hardware, which may or may not
be stupid. The original Mac and its OS came along years before Windows
was even a "gleam in the eye", and at a time when Apple had over 50% of
the education market in the US with their previous computer the Apple
][. They just threw this advantage away, and the world is stuck with
the monstrosity of Windows. Unquestionably Microsoft is streets ahead
of Apple with their marketing strategies.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs? 

On 12/21/03 2:54 PM, in article
0001HW.BC0B3A70000E2278F02845B0.RemoveThis@news.west.cox.net, "John Biltz"
wrote:

 > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 8:01:14 -0800, Steve Bennetch wrote

 >
  >> I'm a life long PC user, and I've seen the hype about Macs,
  >> and I was thinking about getting one. Reading this group, I
  >> see people having problems doing things on a Mac that are
  >> simple to do on a PC. For instance, recovering deleted files.
  >> On a PC, you just go to the Recycle Bin, find the file and restore it.
  >> On a Mac, you have to BUY third party software to achieve this
  >> fundamental task (excuse me?). Also, there is no uninstall feature.
  >> PCs handle all the details for uninstalling an app. On a Mac, you
  >> have to know where all the different files are stored, and manually
  >> delete them.
 >
 > I was a lifelong PC user myself, well since 93 anyway. I switched about
 > 15 months ago and do not forsee going back. First of all this is a place
 > where people have problems post so it makes sense that people posting
 > here have problems or questions. Macs have a recyle bin called trash
 > just like a PC. If you empty it then you need to recover just like a PC.
 > There is no uninstall because you simply grab the folder and place it in
 > the trash. Macs are more compartmentalized than PCs. I will ask your
 > question back to you. If it is so easy to uninstall programs why are
 > there so many third party uninstallers for such an easy task? I am
 > pretty sure simply deleting the folder does a better job getting rid of
 > the program than uninstall does. What it does leave behind doesn't slow
 > the machine down cluttering up the registry and having the machine
 > attempt to start up a program still listed in the startup that doesn't
 > exist. I don't worry about it. I wipe the hard drive and reinstall
 > periodically. Always have, it was the only way to clean Windows
 > effectively since the uninstall was so good. With the Mac I did it when
 > Panther came out it had been over a year, with windows I did it once
 > every 3 or 4 months. Its a lot easier to do with a Mac, I didn't have to
 > install drivers for anything.
 >
  >> These things concern me. I thought Macs were supposed to be easier
  >> to use than PCs. Can any of you Mac users give me any arguments that
  >> would back up the hype? In other words, what can a Mac do that a PC can't,
  >> or what can a Mac do easier than a PC can?
 >
 > When I switched I was highly confused. The first week I was sure I had
 > made a mistake. There is an apalling lack of documentation that came
 > with the Mac. I did get on the net the first day I had it with out
 > having to call my internet service. Internet protocal settings are
 > internet protocal settings. I went out and bought a book Mac OS X The
 > Missing Manual. The simplist things are not simple if you don't know
 > what to do. A new pencil is useless if you don't know you have to
 > sharpen it. The reason I switched was I was sick and tired of XP. Tired
 > of the crashes 3 or more times a week minimum sometimes that many daily.
 > OS X has yet to crash on my system. Buffer over runs are just something
 > I read about and shake my head. As of now there are no OS X viruses,
 > none, not one. So for me it was the stability. I think being easier to
 > use is hype, I don't think it is harder its different, like English and
 > French. The stability is not hype, that is real as can be.
  >>
  >> Like I said, I'm thinking about getting one, because some music creation
  >> software I'm interested in only runs on a Mac. But if its going to
  >> give me headaches doing routine tasks, I might just stick with the PC.
  >>
  >> Thanks,
  >> Steve
 >
 >
 >
I have a new iMAC and I'm a diehard PC user. There are days when I am
frustrated but I think it is just the learning curve. I really love it most
of the time.
Barb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Are Macs really better than PCs?