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Next: System: Glyph table or keycaps utility of OS X?
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 46) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>apps, others (more info?)
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In article <130220080855126686%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
"Mr. Strat" <rag DeleteThis @nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-58CF89.01414313022008 DeleteThis @70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger DeleteThis @pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > > It has nothing to do with market share...it's all about the design of
> > > the OS.
> >
> > Wrong. Market share plays a part, just as design does, just as every
> > other factors I mentioned (and some I didn't mention).
>
> No, the reason there are no OS X viruses or spyware has nothing to do
> with how many Mac are out there in the hands of the people. The reason
> that OS X has not yet had any viruses or spyware in the wild is because
> the default user is not logged in as an admin with root access. DUH!
Nope. You're still wrong.
While certainly not as big a role as some Windows apologists would have
you believe, market share does play a small role. A smaller user base,
and specifically the lack of a substantial corporate user base, does
indeed help protect Mac OS X from some elements.
The default user account created during Mac OS X installation does
indeed have administrator access, which is the Mac OS X equivalent of
protected root access on other Unix-like systems such as Linux. The root
account itself is indeed disabled in default Mac OS X installations, but
the default administrator account can easily modify protected parts of
the operating system just the same. This is a problem I would love to
see Apple address, by forcing the creation of to accounts (one admin,
one normal) during installation.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 47) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<jollyroger-89BBA4.11215513022008.RemoveThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger.RemoveThis@pobox.com> wrote:
> Nope. You're still wrong.
No, you're still wrong.
> While certainly not as big a role as some Windows apologists would have
> you believe, market share does play a small role. A smaller user base,
> and specifically the lack of a substantial corporate user base, does
> indeed help protect Mac OS X from some elements.
>
> The default user account created during Mac OS X installation does
> indeed have administrator access, which is the Mac OS X equivalent of
> protected root access on other Unix-like systems such as Linux. The root
> account itself is indeed disabled in default Mac OS X installations, but
> the default administrator account can easily modify protected parts of
> the operating system just the same. This is a problem I would love to
> see Apple address, by forcing the creation of to accounts (one admin,
> one normal) during installation.
There are millions of Macintoshes out there running various versions of
OS X. OS X has a well-deserved reputation for being virus-free - since
its introduction in the spring of 2001. Any hacker developing a
successful virus for OS X would be held high and celebrated. |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2007
Posts: 300
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(Msg. 48) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <ITtsj.57475$Pv2.666@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
"CZ" <CZ.DeleteThis@no99spam.com> wrote:
> AV3:
>
> >> To operate at root level you must know the password
>
> In OS X 10.5 root user does not have a password by default, though it is
> disabled.
>
> >> It's not so much technology as an organizing principle, and to be fair
> it is a characteristic of Unix and applies to the many flavors of Unix,
> Linux, etc., of which the Mac OSX is but one
>
> How about vulnerabilities?
You sound like a Symantec sycophant, desperate to get Mac users to
invest in more snake oil software from an outfit well known for their
unethical, predatory business model and 7th rate product line. Most of
us need Symantec software like a farking sharp stick in the eye. When I
see anything marked Symantec, I quickly make the sign of the cross and
run to fetch my garlic necklace. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 49) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <130220081034451699%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
"Mr. Strat" <rag RemoveThis @nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-89BBA4.11215513022008 RemoveThis @earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger RemoveThis @pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > Nope. You're still wrong.
>
> No, you're still wrong.
You are under the mistaken impression that user base size has absolutely
nothing to do with why Mac OS X is virus-free. It does play a role,
albeit a small one.
You are also under the mistaken impression that Mac OS X default user
accounts do not have administrator privileges. The default user account
created by every Mac OS X installer to date is an administrator account.
You are just as wrong now as you were when you originally made these
assertions.
> > While certainly not as big a role as some Windows apologists would have
> > you believe, market share does play a small role. A smaller user base,
> > and specifically the lack of a substantial corporate user base, does
> > indeed help protect Mac OS X from some elements.
> >
> > The default user account created during Mac OS X installation does
> > indeed have administrator access, which is the Mac OS X equivalent of
> > protected root access on other Unix-like systems such as Linux. The root
> > account itself is indeed disabled in default Mac OS X installations, but
> > the default administrator account can easily modify protected parts of
> > the operating system just the same. This is a problem I would love to
> > see Apple address, by forcing the creation of to accounts (one admin,
> > one normal) during installation.
>
> There are millions of Macintoshes out there running various versions of
> OS X. OS X has a well-deserved reputation for being virus-free - since
> its introduction in the spring of 2001. Any hacker developing a
> successful virus for OS X would be held high and celebrated.
Apparently in your world most malware developers create malware simply
for the fame. Here in the real world, there are other motivations, the
biggest likely being monetary motivation which is directly influenced by
user base size.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Jul 14, 2003
Posts: 1141
|
(Msg. 50) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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In article
<jollyroger-51F9EF.13462513022008.DeleteThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:
> You are under the mistaken impression that user base size has absolutely
> nothing to do with why Mac OS X is virus-free. It does play a role,
> albeit a small one.
it plays an extremely small role. just look at the commodore amiga,
which has essentially no market share at all. there are over 700
documented viruses. meanwhile, macs, with several orders of magnitude
more users than the amiga, has zero.
> Apparently in your world most malware developers create malware simply
> for the fame. Here in the real world, there are other motivations, the
> biggest likely being monetary motivation which is directly influenced by
> user base size.
they go for the easy pickin's -- windows. if it were easy to write
malware for the mac, they'd be on that too. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Dec 29, 2007
Posts: 39
|
(Msg. 51) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 52) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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In article <130220081420091942%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-51F9EF.13462513022008 RemoveThis @earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger RemoveThis @pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > You are under the mistaken impression that user base size has absolutely
> > nothing to do with why Mac OS X is virus-free. It does play a role,
> > albeit a small one.
>
> it plays an extremely small role.
Right. It plays a role. The argument was whether or not it plays a role.
It does indeed play a role.
> just look at the commodore amiga,
> which has essentially no market share at all. there are over 700
> documented viruses. meanwhile, macs, with several orders of magnitude
> more users than the amiga, has zero.
Agreed, and like I've said, there are a number of factors contributing
to this situation - no single factor is to blame or credit.
> > Apparently in your world most malware developers create malware simply
> > for the fame. Here in the real world, there are other motivations, the
> > biggest likely being monetary motivation which is directly influenced by
> > user base size.
>
> they go for the easy pickin's -- windows. if it were easy to write
> malware for the mac, they'd be on that too.
There are a number of other factors involved, but yes, difficulty is one
of them.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 44
|
(Msg. 53) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: stuffit (was Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10?) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In comp.sys.mac.system BreadWithSpam.DeleteThis@fractious.net wrote:
> Unfortunately, yes, folks still use .sit files. And unlike
> before, stuffit expander is no longer included as part of
> the standard distribution. To get the current version of
> it requires submitting an e-mail address to Allume (and
> "by ... downloading this file, you are signing up to
> receive periodic email from us" Allume can blow it out
> their asses, thanks.)
Yes, you will get spammed. I learned that the hard way.
But, at least for right now, this link coughs it up without
filling out any spam-me form first -
http://tc.versiontracker.com/product/redir/lid/1223552/stuffit_exp_12.....dmgStu
That said, I have not tried to actually install this, so
I don't know if it wants to phone home or what else might
happen then...
Billy Y.. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Jan 06, 2008
Posts: 27
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(Msg. 54) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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> AV3:
>
> >> To operate at root level you must know the password
>
> In OS X 10.5 root user does not have a password by default, though it is
> disabled.
>
> >> It's not so much technology as an organizing principle, and to be fair
> it is a characteristic of Unix and applies to the many flavors of Unix,
> Linux, etc., of which the Mac OSX is but one
>
> How about vulnerabilities?
You sound like a Symantec sycophant, desperate to get Mac users to
invest in more snake oil software from an outfit well known for their
unethical, predatory business model and 7th rate product line. Most of
us need Symantec software like a farking sharp stick in the eye. When I
see anything marked Symantec, I quickly make the sign of the cross and
run to fetch my garlic necklace.
Madwen:
Not really, I am in interested in real knowledge, not hype.
On my Santa Rosa MacBook, I run ClamXav for antivirus, and Little Snitch and
WaterFall for packet filtering and application control (both are firewalls).
One of the best articles on hardening OS X:
http://www.securethoughts.net/leopard/checklist/ >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 55) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: stuffit (was Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10?) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <fovan3$cd1$1@reader2.panix.com>, billy.RemoveThis@MIX.COM wrote:
> In comp.sys.mac.system BreadWithSpam.RemoveThis@fractious.net wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, yes, folks still use .sit files. And unlike
> > before, stuffit expander is no longer included as part of
> > the standard distribution. To get the current version of
> > it requires submitting an e-mail address to Allume (and
> > "by ... downloading this file, you are signing up to
> > receive periodic email from us" Allume can blow it out
> > their asses, thanks.)
>
> Yes, you will get spammed. I learned that the hard way.
I have a Hotmail account just for this purpose. Whenever *any* company
asks for my email address, I give them my hotmail address.
For Usenet, I have a http://pobox.com address. Pobox.com does a pretty
good job of filtering out all spam. I do need to be cautious, though,
because false positives do happen occasionally.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 56) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <i6Gsj.7200$R84.2559@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>, CZ
<CZ.TakeThisOut@no99spam.com> wrote:
> On my Santa Rosa MacBook, I run ClamXav for antivirus, and Little Snitch and
> WaterFall for packet filtering and application control (both are firewalls).
And what OS X viruses does ClamXav protect you from? >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2007
Posts: 300
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(Msg. 57) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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In article <i6Gsj.7200$R84.2559@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
"CZ" <CZ.TakeThisOut@no99spam.com> wrote:
> > AV3:
> >
> > >> To operate at root level you must know the password
> >
> > In OS X 10.5 root user does not have a password by default, though it is
> > disabled.
> >
> > >> It's not so much technology as an organizing principle, and to be fair
> > it is a characteristic of Unix and applies to the many flavors of Unix,
> > Linux, etc., of which the Mac OSX is but one
> >
> > How about vulnerabilities?
>
> You sound like a Symantec sycophant, desperate to get Mac users to
> invest in more snake oil software from an outfit well known for their
> unethical, predatory business model and 7th rate product line. Most of
> us need Symantec software like a farking sharp stick in the eye. When I
> see anything marked Symantec, I quickly make the sign of the cross and
> run to fetch my garlic necklace.
> Madwen:
>
> Not really, I am in interested in real knowledge, not hype.
OK, I take back the sycophant snipe but I stand by my remarks about
Symantec. I see nothing wrong with being prepared. After all, I was a
Girl Scout. No OS is perfect; all have vulnerabilities. We all have to
weigh our configurations against the risks inherent therein. And right
now, I just don't see any risk factors that merit advising newbies with
relatively standard configurations to invest in expensive virus software
solely for the Mac OS. And I sure as heck would never recommend
anything from Symantec.
> On my Santa Rosa MacBook, I run ClamXav for antivirus, and Little Snitch and
> WaterFall for packet filtering and application control (both are firewalls).
>
> One of the best articles on hardening OS X:
> http://www.securethoughts.net/leopard/checklist/
Good article, thanks. I run Little Snitch but I've never heard of
Waterfall. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Jan 06, 2008
Posts: 27
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(Msg. 58) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>> And what OS X viruses does ClamXav protect you from?
Mr Strat:
I have not had a virus, Trojan, etc on my PCs running Windoze for over 15
years, but that does not mean I want to run sans an antivirus program.
IMO, OS X is vulnerable as are all op systems. I want a thought-out
response to risk assessment, not a marketing response. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 59) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<wyvern-6B3B08.14173413022008.RemoveThis@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Madwen <wyvern.RemoveThis@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <i6Gsj.7200$R84.2559@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
> "CZ" <CZ.RemoveThis@no99spam.com> wrote:
>
> > On my Santa Rosa MacBook, I run ClamXav for antivirus, and Little Snitch
> > and
> > WaterFall for packet filtering and application control (both are
> > firewalls).
> >
> > One of the best articles on hardening OS X:
> > http://www.securethoughts.net/leopard/checklist/
>
> Good article, thanks. I run Little Snitch but I've never heard of
> Waterfall.
I'm sure he meant to say "WaterRoof".
WaterRoof isn't a firewall. It's a user interface, previously called
"Brickhouse", that functions as a front end to ipfw, the built-in Mac OS
X firewall. WaterRoof allows you to configure features of ipfw that you
would normally need to use the command line to access.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 6223
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(Msg. 60) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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