Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10?

In article <130220081431041249%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam DeleteThis @nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <JsHsj.452$Mh2.116@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, CZ
> <CZ DeleteThis @no99spam.com> wrote:
>
> > IMO, OS X is vulnerable as are all op systems. I want a thought-out
> > response to risk assessment, not a marketing response.
>
> vulnerable to what? name one virus in the wild for the mac that
> doesn't require the user to explicitly download and install something.
>
> if you don't blindly install random software, you are essentially
> immune from malware on the mac.

Actually, it's more correct to say "if you don't blindly install random
software, you are essentially immune from viruses and trojans on the
mac".

Malware comes in many forms, including crack attacks against running
services such as apache or apache with PHP. Such attacks do not require
the end user to download, install, or run email attachments or programs.
All that is required is a service such as web sharing or file sharing to
be running that can be exploited. As Apple's regular security patches
show, these attack vectors are numerous and are being discovered with
frequency. So refraining from downloading software will *not* protect
Mac users from all malware.

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JR
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In article <gkreme-3C6B68.14251213022008.TakeThisOut@news.giganews.com>,
Lewis <gkreme.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article <JsHsj.452$Mh2.116@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> "CZ" <CZ.TakeThisOut@no99spam.com> wrote:
>
> > IMO, OS X is vulnerable
>
> Facts be damned, eh?

To be fair, Mac OS X *is* vulnerable to malware attacks. It's just not
*as* vulnerable as Windows and other operating systems.

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In article
<jollyroger-D79B53.16544413022008.DeleteThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:

> Malware comes in many forms, including crack attacks against running
> services such as apache or apache with PHP.

Oops - incomplete thought.

Malware comes in many forms, including crack attacks, buffer overflows,
etc. against running services such as apache or apache with PHP.

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JR
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On 2008-02-13 11:46:25 -0800, Jolly Roger <jollyroger RemoveThis @pobox.com> said:

> You are also under the mistaken impression that Mac OS X default user
> accounts do not have administrator privileges. The default user account
> created by every Mac OS X installer to date is an administrator account.

This is easily demonstrated, too. Just open the Terminal and type:

touch /Applications/imagineifiwasavirus

Notice you're not being asked for a user name/password? That shows how
secure the Applications folder really is. Imagine a processed managed
to modify the code for, say, iChat. Just like that, the virus is back
into memory every time an instant message comes in. Or iTunes; Now
you're toast whenever you plug in your iPod. Or... well... just look
over the Applications folder:
- Preview -- as soon as you double click a PDF.
- Safari/Firefox -- as soon as you open a web link.

A little imagination will show you exactly how potentially unsafe Mac
OS X could be. But, again, there are no viruses at this time, so
getting paranoid is useless. Still, it sure be nice if Apple made
authentication necessary to change Applications.
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 >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? 

> Good article, thanks. I run Little Snitch but I've never heard of
> Waterfall.

I'm sure he meant to say "WaterRoof".

WaterRoof isn't a firewall. It's a user interface, previously called
"Brickhouse", that functions as a front end to ipfw, the built-in Mac OS
X firewall. WaterRoof allows you to configure features of ipfw that you
would normally need to use the command line to access.

JR

Correct, the product is WaterRoof, and it is a GUI interface to ipfw.
 >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? 

> I have not had a virus, Trojan, etc on my PCs running Windoze for
> over 15 years, but that does not mean I want to run sans an antivirus
> program.

But if you had not had an antivirus program, would your system have
remained pristine?


Michelle

Probably, as I do not recall a virus trigger in many years.
I am in IT, so I am behind a NAT-router, and normally browse the Internet
with the following disabled: ActiveX, Java, and Java Script. Also, I do
not have any services open to the outside, and I rarely open any email
attachments. And I read email in plain text only (not in html). And always
run two f/ws, one for app control, and one for packet filtering. And the op
system is hardened, and ...

I ran a PC for 8 years on 24x7; never had a problem.

Ultimately, security reflects the attitude & knowledge of the end user.


>> At present, there is no need for AV software for the Macintosh.

Perhaps, but ClamXav is free and causes absolutely no problems on my
MacBook.
Also, I run VM Fusion with Vista and XP on the MacBook, so if I ever get a
virus via Windoz, then OS X may benefit from running ClamXav.
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> >> And what OS X viruses does ClamXav protect you from?
>
> I have not had a virus, Trojan, etc on my PCs running Windoze for over 15
> years, but that does not mean I want to run sans an antivirus program.

I find that exceedingly hard to believe unless you machine is 1) not
connected to the Internet and 2) doesn't ever install any software.

If you mean not INFECTED, that's one thing. But if your antivirus has
never even triggered? Well, I don't believe you, sorry. Hell, there's
been too many cases of viruses on commercial software for that to be
plausible.

And you didn't answer the question. What OS X viruses does ClamXAV
protect you from?

None. Not one. And if there is suddenly one, ClamX STILL won't protect
you because it needs to know about it first. Like most anti-virus
software, it is reactive.


Lewis:

I mean not infected. However, I do not recall any AV s/w triggering in many
years.

Zero-day exploits will always render AV s/w useless.

>> Well, I don't believe you, sorry.

To add to your disbeliefs, I have been running Vista for 1.5 years from
betas to SP1 and it is great.
I run it in 5 different setups, including one on my MacBook.
No problems.
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Addendum:

> Good article, thanks. I run Little Snitch but I've never heard of
> Waterfall.

I'm sure he meant to say "WaterRoof".

WaterRoof isn't a firewall. It's a user interface, previously called
"Brickhouse", that functions as a front end to ipfw, the built-in Mac OS
X firewall. WaterRoof allows you to configure features of ipfw that you
would normally need to use the command line to access.

JR

Leopard includes two f/ws:
The Leopard GUI f/w is new to OS X and is basically for application control
only.
OS X includes the packet filtering FreeBSD f/w called ipfw which is a
command line utility.
WaterRoof is a GUI to ipfw, not to the Leopard GUI f/w.
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In article
<jollyroger-51F9EF.13462513022008.TakeThisOut@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger.TakeThisOut@pobox.com> wrote:

> You are under the mistaken impression that user base size has absolutely
> nothing to do with why Mac OS X is virus-free. It does play a role,
> albeit a small one.

Here's a quarter...go buy a clue.

> You are also under the mistaken impression that Mac OS X default user
> accounts do not have administrator privileges. The default user account
> created by every Mac OS X installer to date is an administrator account.

I said "logged in as an admin with root access" - big difference.
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In article <GlNsj.1617$fX7.726@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"CZ" <CZ RemoveThis @no99spam.com> wrote:

> > I have not had a virus, Trojan, etc on my PCs running Windoze for
> > over 15 years, but that does not mean I want to run sans an antivirus
> > program.
>
> But if you had not had an antivirus program, would your system have
> remained pristine?
>
>
> Michelle
>
> Probably, as I do not recall a virus trigger in many years.

Is Windows Mail unable to properly indent quotes and add attribution
lines to the top of reply messages, or do you simply have this feature
turned off?

Whatever the cause, I think you should be aware that it is causing
problems for the rest of us, because, as you can see above, since your
posts are at the exact same level as the posts to which you reply, it
makes it look as if you are writing things that the people to whom you
are replying wrote.

As a favor to the rest of us, please investigate this issue and resolve
it if you can!

--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.

JR
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In article <JsHsj.452$Mh2.116@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, CZ
<CZ.RemoveThis@no99spam.com> wrote:

> I have not had a virus, Trojan, etc on my PCs running Windoze for over 15
> years, but that does not mean I want to run sans an antivirus program.

Windows and OS X are far from similar in their security models. I
wouldn't think of running a Windows computer without good AV software.
It's not need on OS X.

> IMO, OS X is vulnerable as are all op systems. I want a thought-out
> response to risk assessment, not a marketing response.

Name one virus/spyware (in the wild) since OS X was introduced in the
spring of 2001.
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In article <GlNsj.1617$fX7.726@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>, CZ
<CZ.RemoveThis@no99spam.com> wrote:

> Probably, as I do not recall a virus trigger in many years.
> I am in IT, so I am behind a NAT-router, and normally browse the Internet
> with the following disabled: ActiveX, Java, and Java Script. Also, I do
> not have any services open to the outside, and I rarely open any email
> attachments. And I read email in plain text only (not in html). And always
> run two f/ws, one for app control, and one for packet filtering. And the op
> system is hardened, and ...

That must make for beautifully rendered Web pages.

> Ultimately, security reflects the attitude & knowledge of the end user.

The basic design of the OS plays a huge role.

> Perhaps, but ClamXav is free and causes absolutely no problems on my
> MacBook.
> Also, I run VM Fusion with Vista and XP on the MacBook, so if I ever get a
> virus via Windoz, then OS X may benefit from running ClamXav.

How does a Windows virus infect OS X?
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