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Next: System: Glyph table or keycaps utility of OS X?
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 76) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>apps, others (more info?)
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In article <YyNsj.1620$fX7.974@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"CZ" <CZ RemoveThis @no99spam.com> wrote:
> Leopard includes two f/ws:
No, it includes just one: ipfw.
> The Leopard GUI f/w is new to OS X and is basically for application control
> only.
The System Preferences > Security > Firewall system preference panel is
simply a user interface that allows you to configure ipfw.
> OS X includes the packet filtering FreeBSD f/w called ipfw which is a
> command line utility.
Correct.
> WaterRoof is a GUI to ipfw, not to the Leopard GUI f/w.
WaterRoof is a actually peer with Apple's built-in System Preferences >
Security > Firewall user interface - a peer that does much more in this
case.
--
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JR |
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External
Since: Jan 06, 2008
Posts: 27
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(Msg. 77) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Re: firewalls in OS X:
JR:
In Tiger, apparently, the GUI f/w was an interface to ipfw (the command line
f/w)
In Leopard, Apple added a new GUI application f/w, and ipfw is still
included with Leopard.
Application f/ws (Leopard's GUI f/w and Little Snitch) work at OSI layer 7,
and a socket based f/w works at OSI layer 3 and 4 (ipfw). WaterRoof is a
GUI interface to ipfw.
Some info from the Internet:
"Apple has posted some info about the new firewall:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306938
I haven't read it all yet, but the third paragraph says, "The Application
Firewall does not overrule rules set with ipfw, because ipfw operates on
packets at a lower level in the networking stack." "
"IPFW in Leopard is the same as IPFW in Tiger. Same options, same behaviour,
same bugs (rules sets, uid/gid rule tagging...). Apple has added an
application firewall, which has nothing to do/to share with IPFW. It works
quite well, but there are 2 big issues: 1) it is totally undocumented 2) the
"Firewall" preference pane is confusing and useless.
The idea behind an application firewall is great, just another level of
security. More levels means more granularity, more complexity and so on.
Just growing up, and to me it's really funny
"/usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw" is the only way to access
appfirewall, but it's limited, almost useless. It really seems that
appfirewall is still at beta stage of development, so let's wait and hope.
My goal is to add appfirewall configuration to the next version of
WaterRoof. Please help me if you can
Thank you. Hany "
[Hany is the developer of WaterRoof]
"I just ran across what appears to be the firewall that Leopard is using.
/usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw
As Paul has pointed out, Leopard is using socketfilterfw, rather than ipfw.
Some discussion here:
http://www.matasano.com/log/986/what-weve-since-learned-about-leopard-...urity-f
and here:
http://securosis.com/2007/11/01/investigating-the-leopard-firewall/ ' |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 78) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<jollyroger-4F37ED.16584713022008.DeleteThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:
> To be fair, Mac OS X *is* vulnerable to malware attacks. It's just not
> *as* vulnerable as Windows and other operating systems.
Again...name just one OS X virus or spyware in the wild since OS X was
introduced almost seven years ago. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 79) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <imNsj.1618$fX7.1315@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>, CZ
<CZ RemoveThis @no99spam.com> wrote:
> To add to your disbeliefs, I have been running Vista for 1.5 years from
> betas to SP1 and it is great.
> I run it in 5 different setups, including one on my MacBook.
You have my deepest sympathy. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 80) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <f9Psj.330$pl4.165@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>,
"CZ" <CZ RemoveThis @no99spam.com> wrote:
> In Tiger, apparently, the GUI f/w was an interface to ipfw (the command line
> f/w)
> In Leopard, Apple added a new GUI application f/w, and ipfw is still
> included with Leopard.
Oh I see what you mean now. Yep.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 6223
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(Msg. 81) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 82) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <130220082107357002%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
"Mr. Strat" <rag.DeleteThis@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-51F9EF.13462513022008.DeleteThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > You are under the mistaken impression that user base size has absolutely
> > nothing to do with why Mac OS X is virus-free. It does play a role,
> > albeit a small one.
>
> Here's a quarter...go buy a clue.
That doesn't help your argument. You're still just as wrong about this
as before.
> > You are also under the mistaken impression that Mac OS X default user
> > accounts do not have administrator privileges. The default user account
> > created by every Mac OS X installer to date is an administrator account.
>
> I said "logged in as an admin with root access" - big difference.
No, here's what you actually said:
In article <130220080855126686%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
"Mr. Strat" <rag.DeleteThis@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> The reason
> that OS X has not yet had any viruses or spyware in the wild is because
> the default user is not logged in as an admin with root access.
The default user is an administrator with escalated privileges. The root
user is disabled, but the default user account has more privileges than
it should because it is an administrator account. In fact, by typing in
your default user account password, you can do much of anything that the
root user could do if it were enabled. You're wrong.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Aug 31, 2003
Posts: 1256
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(Msg. 83) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:07 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-02-13 13:20:09 -0800, Lewis <gkreme.RemoveThis@gmail.com> said:
> In article <2008021311592522503-sdfisher@spamcopnet>,
> Steven Fisher <sdfisher.RemoveThis@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> touch /Applications/imagineifiwasavirus
>
> $ touch /Applications/imagineifiwasavirus
> touch: /Applications/imagineifiwasavirus: Permission denied
>
> (there's one in every crowd)
Yeah, a limited account will do it. Unfortunately, a limited account
can't elevate. I find it a little ridiculous that you have to pick
between "I can modify Applications accidentally" and "I can't make
changes at all without another account."
The point is that by default it is open, not that it's impossible to secure. :) >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Jan 19, 2008
Posts: 637
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(Msg. 84) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:44 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 19, 2008
Posts: 637
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(Msg. 85) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:33 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 16, 2005
Posts: 522
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(Msg. 86) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <130220082113177487%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
"Mr. Strat" <rag.RemoveThis@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-4F37ED.16584713022008.RemoveThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger.RemoveThis@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > To be fair, Mac OS X *is* vulnerable to malware attacks. It's just not
> > *as* vulnerable as Windows and other operating systems.
>
> Again...name just one OS X virus or spyware in the wild since OS X was
> introduced almost seven years ago.
I have been told several times that I should have NAV 10 on my office
Mac. My response is that I will only do that when I see there's a
credible threat that warrants my installing anti-virus software on my
Mac. Thus far, none of the data security officers at work has come
anywhere near close to justifying their recommendation. Fortunately, I
have enough seniority that I can get a way with that approach. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 87) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:02 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<jollyroger-9AE6AE.23584913022008.TakeThisOut@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Jolly Roger <jollyroger.TakeThisOut@pobox.com> wrote:
> No, here's what you actually said:
>
> In article <130220080855126686%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
> "Mr. Strat" <rag.TakeThisOut@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
>
> > The reason
> > that OS X has not yet had any viruses or spyware in the wild is because
> > the default user is not logged in as an admin with root access.
And that's not factual?
> The default user is an administrator with escalated privileges. The root
> user is disabled, but the default user account has more privileges than
> it should because it is an administrator account. In fact, by typing in
> your default user account password, you can do much of anything that the
> root user could do if it were enabled. You're wrong.
If you want to depend on PEBCAK, anything's possible. With OS X,
software is not going to install itself without the user giving the
admin password. With Windows, it just goes ahead without user
intervention. Big difference.
I'm still waiting to hear how market share has a bearing in lack of
virus attacks. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 88) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <srhi-3850EB.07151114022008.RemoveThis@newsgroups.comcast.net>, Shawn
Hirn <srhi.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> I have been told several times that I should have NAV 10 on my office
> Mac. My response is that I will only do that when I see there's a
> credible threat that warrants my installing anti-virus software on my
> Mac. Thus far, none of the data security officers at work has come
> anywhere near close to justifying their recommendation. Fortunately, I
> have enough seniority that I can get a way with that approach.
Windows people just don't get it. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 89) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:35 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <gkreme-473139.05440414022008.DeleteThis@news.giganews.com>,
Lewis <gkreme.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-02928A.17090213022008.DeleteThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <jollyroger-D79B53.16544413022008.DeleteThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> > Jolly Roger <jollyroger.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Malware comes in many forms, including crack attacks against running
> > > services such as apache or apache with PHP.
> >
> > Oops - incomplete thought.
> >
> > Malware comes in many forms, including crack attacks, buffer overflows,
> > etc. against running services such as apache or apache with PHP.
>
> True, but most Macs don't have php or apache running...
That may be the case, but my point was there are plenty of Macs out
there that do run web servers, file services, remote login services, and
so on.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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External
Since: Sep 09, 2006
Posts: 2861
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(Msg. 90) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <140220080902505592%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
"Mr. Strat" <rag.RemoveThis@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> In article
> <jollyroger-9AE6AE.23584913022008.RemoveThis@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger.RemoveThis@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > No, here's what you actually said:
> >
> > In article <130220080855126686%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
> > "Mr. Strat" <rag.RemoveThis@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The reason
> > > that OS X has not yet had any viruses or spyware in the wild is because
> > > the default user is not logged in as an admin with root access.
>
> And that's not factual?
It's not factual. It's not the reason Mac OS X has not yet had any
viruses. And while the default user isn't logged in with _root_ access,
it *is* logged in with administrator access which is roughly equivalent
in many ways. And that, in itself, is not the only reason why Mac OS X
is virus-free!
> > The default user is an administrator with escalated privileges. The root
> > user is disabled, but the default user account has more privileges than
> > it should because it is an administrator account. In fact, by typing in
> > your default user account password, you can do much of anything that the
> > root user could do if it were enabled. You're wrong.
>
> If you want to depend on PEBCAK, anything's possible. With OS X,
> software is not going to install itself without the user giving the
> admin password. With Windows, it just goes ahead without user
> intervention. Big difference.
Yes, ok, and that proves what? You think user interaction is somehow
required for any and all viruses to spread?
> I'm still waiting to hear how market share has a bearing in lack of
> virus attacks.
*sigh* I've already explained the bearing has to do with monetary
motivation.
You seem to be arguing just to argue. I'm getting bored with this
back-and-forth interaction with you. I'm about to cut you off as a
result. Fair warning.
--
Note: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you
must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to
this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter.
JR >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Norton AntiVirus 10? |
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