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The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator?

 
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AES

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Since: May 31, 2004
Posts: 591



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:03 pm
Post subject: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator?
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>apps, others (more info?)

I have numerous PICTs that were created a couple of decades ago. When I
open one of these today using Illustrator CS, I see a small postage
stamp size cc of the image positioned about one artboard's width and
height up to the left from the upper left corner of the artboard (I
assume it's the artboard -- a black rectangle, anyway).

If I Select All, or drag over a larger area I see a kind of much larger
but incomplete version of the image that's maybe three times the size of
the artboard and centered on it, and seems to contain a lot of the
points and symbols of the artboard, but not the lines.

If I expand the Illustrator magnification to large value and look at one
of those points close up, it's often what seems to be clearly a vector
format graphic, e.g. of an arrowhead with endpoints and lines, or a
circle with Bezier curve type handles which one can in fact adjust with
the mouse and change the shape of the small object.

If I Save As the graphic from Illustrator to, say, PDF or EPS, I get
what seems to be only a raster or pixel graphic.

What goes on here? I thought I once was told that PICT format contained
vector *and* raster data. A year ago I was sternly informed that PICT
graphics were strictly pixel data. Now I'm just confused -- and on the
practical side, what would be the best choice and procedure for
converting all these old PICTs into some other more modern or widely
used format, if I just want to get out of the business of handling them?

[comp.text.pdf added because I'd suppose there are some graphics formats
experts on that grup.]

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Martin

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Since: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:09 am
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> What goes on here? I thought I once was told that PICT format contained
> vector *and* raster data. A year ago I was sternly informed that PICT
> graphics were strictly pixel data. Now I'm just confused -- and on the
> practical side, what would be the best choice and procedure for
> converting all these old PICTs into some other more modern or widely
> used format, if I just want to get out of the business of handling them?

QuickTime Player seems to open PICT files on my machine. So if you
have QuickTime Pro, this is probably the easiest way of converting
them to a modern format (PDF or so). Also, since after all Apple
invented that format, the converted file should contain as much info
as there was in the original file, so if turns out to be a low-
resolution bitmap, that's probably just what the files are...

Martin

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Gregory Weston1

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Since: Oct 03, 2004
Posts: 2984



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>apps, others (more info?)

In article <siegman-1F6C7D.22032330052007 RemoveThis @news.stanford.edu>,
AES <siegman RemoveThis @stanford.edu> wrote:

> What goes on here? I thought I once was told that PICT format contained
> vector *and* raster data. A year ago I was sternly informed that PICT
> graphics were strictly pixel data.

A year ago you were misinformed.

PICT data consists of serialized drawing commands, that recreate a
picture from scratch as it was created the first time. Very commonly, a
PICT image will consist of the single command "draw this bitmap"
followed by pixel data, but they can also contain instructions to draw
text or lines, fill...they can even contain private data usable by
specific apps and ignored by others.

Feel free to buy a single-serving coconut cream pie and moosh it in the
face of the person who so stridently told you otherwise.

> Now I'm just confused -- and on the
> practical side, what would be the best choice and procedure for
> converting all these old PICTs into some other more modern or widely
> used format, if I just want to get out of the business of handling them?

If they _are_ single-image "draw this bitmap" PICTs, any raster format
you like is fine but I'd probably aim for PNG. Otherwise, PDF or EPS
would be my choice. But apparently you may have to work a little to find
a program that will convert the PICT drawing instructions into drawing
instructions in the new format rather than rendering it and then
building the final result.

For what it's worth, when I save as PS from the OS X print dialog, I get
scaleable files - as long as the pict I started with actually did
contain drawing commands.

G
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AES

External


Since: May 31, 2004
Posts: 591



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <uce-8C5A47.07271731052007.DeleteThis@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Gregory Weston <uce.DeleteThis@splook.com> wrote:

>
> For what it's worth, when I save as PS from the OS X print dialog, I get
> scaleable files - as long as the pict I started with actually did
> contain drawing commands.
>

Sounds like a winner -- but what application(s) do you use to open and
then Print/Save As these PICT files from?

[I have Illustrator CS, Photoshop Elements, Acrobat, Word,
GraphicConverter, TextEdit, among potential candidates.]
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bugbear

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Since: May 31, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:34 am
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>apps, others (more info?)

AES wrote:
> I have numerous PICTs that were created a couple of decades ago. When I
> open one of these today using Illustrator CS, I see a small postage
> stamp size cc of the image positioned about one artboard's width and
> height up to the left from the upper left corner of the artboard (I
> assume it's the artboard -- a black rectangle, anyway).
>
....


> what seems to be only a raster or pixel graphic.
>
> What goes on here? I thought I once was told that PICT format contained
> vector *and* raster data. A year ago I was sternly informed that PICT
> graphics were strictly pixel data. Now I'm just confused -- and on the
> practical side, what would be the best choice and procedure for
> converting all these old PICTs into some other more modern or widely
> used format, if I just want to get out of the business of handling them?

PICT is a mixed format, with representations of vector, text and
raster data.

Your best chance of handling it may be an older Mac application
(I don't know the state of play for really old Mac software,
since it was 68020, and we've gone though powerPC and Intel
versions since then, and a change of OS).

The older Mac printer drivers made a fairly good job of generating
PS from PICT, so this may provide a somewhat obscure
conversion path.

I don't know if any of the "heavy" vector programs
(e.g. CorelDraw) can handle PICT.

BugBear
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Fred McKenzie

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Since: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 153



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <siegman-1F6C7D.22032330052007.TakeThisOut@news.stanford.edu>,
AES <siegman.TakeThisOut@stanford.edu> wrote:

> I have numerous PICTs that were created a couple of decades ago. When I
> open one of these today using Illustrator CS, I see a small postage
> stamp size cc of the image positioned about one artboard's width and
> height up to the left from the upper left corner of the artboard

AES-

Do you by any chance also have the original files used to create the
PICTs? I believe programs like MacDraw or ClarisDraw were primarily
vector graphics programs, but when the "Save As" option was used to
create PICTs, the data was converted in some fashion. In other words,
it may not be possible to un-convert them.

Programs like EazyDraw or Intaglio may be better for opening the old
files on an Intel Mac. Once opened, if you like what you see, perhaps
you can copy it and paste into an Illustrator document. Of course any
bit-mapped grahics that were originally pasted into the old document,
will still be bit-mapped!

Fred
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dorayme

External


Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 1330



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <siegman-1F6C7D.22032330052007.TakeThisOut@news.stanford.edu>,
AES <siegman.TakeThisOut@stanford.edu> wrote:

> I have numerous PICTs that were created a couple of decades ago. When I
> open one of these today using Illustrator CS, I see a small postage
> stamp size cc of the image positioned about one artboard's width and
> height up to the left from the upper left corner of the artboard (I
> assume it's the artboard -- a black rectangle, anyway).
>
> If I Select All, or drag over a larger area I see a kind of much larger
> but incomplete version of the image that's maybe three times the size of
> the artboard and centered on it, and seems to contain a lot of the
> points and symbols of the artboard, but not the lines.
>
> If I expand the Illustrator magnification to large value and look at one
> of those points close up, it's often what seems to be clearly a vector
> format graphic, e.g. of an arrowhead with endpoints and lines, or a
> circle with Bezier curve type handles which one can in fact adjust with
> the mouse and change the shape of the small object.
>
> If I Save As the graphic from Illustrator to, say, PDF or EPS, I get
> what seems to be only a raster or pixel graphic.

It is just a pixel image with little maths in it and you can
resize it - at will - up to the native size and then it will
start to lose quality fast. You are seeing the normal controls
that Illustrator shows to resize/scale things I am pretty sure.

What do you want to do with it in Illustrator? You can do a lot
short of turning it into a vector graphic _and_ thereby gaining a
step up in the always difficult battle of preserving quality
beyond a native size of "pixel graphics"

--
dorayme
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Johan W. Elzenga

External


Since: Feb 22, 2004
Posts: 331



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

dorayme <doraymeRidThis DeleteThis @optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> In article <siegman-1F6C7D.22032330052007 DeleteThis @news.stanford.edu>,
> AES <siegman DeleteThis @stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> > I have numerous PICTs that were created a couple of decades ago. When I
> > open one of these today using Illustrator CS, I see a small postage
> > stamp size cc of the image positioned about one artboard's width and
> > height up to the left from the upper left corner of the artboard (I
> > assume it's the artboard -- a black rectangle, anyway).
> >
> > If I Select All, or drag over a larger area I see a kind of much larger
> > but incomplete version of the image that's maybe three times the size of
> > the artboard and centered on it, and seems to contain a lot of the
> > points and symbols of the artboard, but not the lines.
> >
> > If I expand the Illustrator magnification to large value and look at one
> > of those points close up, it's often what seems to be clearly a vector
> > format graphic, e.g. of an arrowhead with endpoints and lines, or a
> > circle with Bezier curve type handles which one can in fact adjust with
> > the mouse and change the shape of the small object.
> >
> > If I Save As the graphic from Illustrator to, say, PDF or EPS, I get
> > what seems to be only a raster or pixel graphic.
>
> It is just a pixel image with little maths in it and you can
> resize it - at will - up to the native size and then it will
> start to lose quality fast. You are seeing the normal controls
> that Illustrator shows to resize/scale things I am pretty sure.
>
> What do you want to do with it in Illustrator? You can do a lot
> short of turning it into a vector graphic _and_ thereby gaining a
> step up in the always difficult battle of preserving quality
> beyond a native size of "pixel graphics"

Actually, PICT used to be the vector image format of the Macintosh a
long time ago. You could also put a pixel image in a PICT file (or save
a pixel image as PICT) however, so probably that is what these are.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com
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dorayme

External


Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 1330



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <1hyz2n6.zwk2kg1pdylz0N%nomail@please.invalid>,
nomail DeleteThis @please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

> > It is just a pixel image with little maths in it and you can
> > resize it - at will - up to the native size and then it will
> > start to lose quality fast. You are seeing the normal controls
> > that Illustrator shows to resize/scale things I am pretty sure.
> >
> > What do you want to do with it in Illustrator? You can do a lot
> > short of turning it into a vector graphic _and_ thereby gaining a
> > step up in the always difficult battle of preserving quality
> > beyond a native size of "pixel graphics"
>
> Actually, PICT used to be the vector image format of the Macintosh a
> long time ago. You could also put a pixel image in a PICT file (or save
> a pixel image as PICT) however, so probably that is what these are.
>

Yes, you are right. If they are very old files, there may
possibly be some vector maths involved. I guess the simple way of
deciding is for OP to look carefully at quality of the possible
objects within the pics at rather large scales.

--
dorayme
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value

External


Since: May 31, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: The PICT format? -- and PICTs in Illustrator? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Try to have access to Framemaker from Adobe which is Mac compatible, perhaps
it could open it ? Then you can export to Windows.

You could also emulate a Mac on a PC!

"Fred McKenzie" <fmmck.TakeThisOut@aol.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
fmmck-EBA65D.12434031052007.TakeThisOut@nntp.aioe.org...
> In article <siegman-1F6C7D.22032330052007.TakeThisOut@news.stanford.edu>,
> AES <siegman.TakeThisOut@stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>> I have numerous PICTs that were created a couple of decades ago. When I
>> open one of these today using Illustrator CS, I see a small postage
>> stamp size cc of the image positioned about one artboard's width and
>> height up to the left from the upper left corner of the artboard
>
> AES-
>
> Do you by any chance also have the original files used to create the
> PICTs? I believe programs like MacDraw or ClarisDraw were primarily
> vector graphics programs, but when the "Save As" option was used to
> create PICTs, the data was converted in some fashion. In other words,
> it may not be possible to un-convert them.
>
> Programs like EazyDraw or Intaglio may be better for opening the old
> files on an Intel Mac. Once opened, if you like what you see, perhaps
> you can copy it and paste into an Illustrator document. Of course any
> bit-mapped grahics that were originally pasted into the old document,
> will still be bit-mapped!
>
> Fred
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