Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium?

In article ,
Barry Margolin wrote:

> In article ,
> Abe wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > it looks like virtual pc for vista home premium is not available. Does
> > anyone have any alternatives to run virtual pc's on my machine?
>
> Microsoft announced a while ago that Vista isn't permitted to be used in
> any virtual environment. So it can't be used with Virtual PC, VMWare,
> or Parallels Desktop. I'm not sure why they have this policy, but you
> have to get a real PC to run it (maybe their PC vendor partners pushed
> them for this).
>
> You could get an Intel Mac and use Bootcamp, I suspect. This boots the
> computer into Windows, rather than using virtualization, so it doesn't
> violate MS's policy.

You can legally use SOME versions of Vista (the more expensive ones)
under emulation / virtualisation, but I doubt you'd want to try Vista
under Virtual PC's emulation anyway - it's likely to be slow.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

There is a lot of misinformation here. I hope the following helps.

First, all editions of Vista will run in a virtualized environment. I have
run both Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium using VPC 2007 on a MacBook
Pro (Windows partition).

Second, the EULA for the Home editions of Vista forbid use in a virtualized
environment but the editions DO RUN. An exception to this restriction is
for MSDN subscribers; the EULA's for MSDN copies of Vista Home Basic and
Premium do permit running them in a virtualized environment (how else can a
developer use VPC and Virtual Server to test against these editions?).

Third, Microsoft only gives product support for the business editions of
Vista (Business, Enterprise, and Ultimate) when run in a virtualized
environment, but that does not mean that unsupported editions don't run.
Again, they DO. They just aren't supported.

Fourth, the memory restrictions and performance issues render Vista in VPC7
problematic. However, Intel Mac users should have no such problems running
Vista under Parrallels on OS/X.

Finally, Intel Mac users who leverage Boot Camp can run all editions of
Vista using VPC 2007, Virtual Server 2005 R2, Parrallels, or VMWare just as
any Windows only user can. I run Vista Ultimate x86 under VPC 2007 and
Vista Ultimate x64 under VMWare 6 beta on my MacBook Pro with no complaints
about performance. I have tested all editions of Vista on my MacBook Pro
with complete success.

One of the biggest misunderstandings is about the terms "supported" and
"runs." When used by Microsoft, "supported" merely means that the product
is given Microsoft Product Support Services assistance. "Runs" is an
entirely different matter. Many many products are not supported in certain
scenarios but run in them just fine. For example, when installing VPC 2007,
XP Home users get a message that VPC 2007 is not supported on their host OS.
However, VPC 2007 will then install and will run without issues. The
message just means that the user cannot count on help from MS with problems
they might run into. The same thing happens when Vista Home Basic and Vista
Home Premium users install VPC 2007 on their machines. VPC will run just
fine for them too but they cannot call up Product Support Services for help
if they run into problems. All of these concepts apply to VPC7 on a Power
PC Mac as well.

Colin Barnhorst - Microsoft MVP for Virtual Machine

"Abe" wrote in message

> Hi all,
>
> it looks like virtual pc for vista home premium is not available. Does
> anyone have any alternatives to run virtual pc's on my machine?
>
> Thanks!
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

In article , "Colin
Barnhorst" wrote:

> There is a lot of misinformation here. I hope the following helps.
>
> First, all editions of Vista will run in a virtualized environment. I have
> run both Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium using VPC 2007 on a MacBook
> Pro (Windows partition).
<snip>

It's simply the same as re-using the copy of Windows from Virtual PC
with Parallels ... it can be done, but the licensing aggreement that
you leaglly aggree to by installing the product does not allowed to do
it, and anyone that ignores those rules is being a greedy, selfish
moron.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

I know that. I am simply clarifying the difference between what runs and
what is supported. There is a ton of misinformation on that topic. There
are a lot of statements that simply are not true.

Licensing is yet another topic and is equally misunderstood. An example of
that is the difference between licensing virtual machines when running a
retail copy of Vista versus a volume license or Software Assurance copy. In
the latter case the EULA for Vista Enterprise and Ultimate permit the
licensing of four virtualized copies of Windows and the virtualization
software used does not even have to be Microsoft's. Just an example of how
convoluted all this can be.

"Helpful Harry" wrote in message

> In article , "Colin
> Barnhorst" wrote:
>
>> There is a lot of misinformation here. I hope the following helps.
>>
>> First, all editions of Vista will run in a virtualized environment. I
>> have
>> run both Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium using VPC 2007 on a
>> MacBook
>> Pro (Windows partition).
> <snip>
>
> It's simply the same as re-using the copy of Windows from Virtual PC
> with Parallels ... it can be done, but the licensing aggreement that
> you leaglly aggree to by installing the product does not allowed to do
> it, and anyone that ignores those rules is being a greedy, selfish
> moron.
>
> Helpful Harry
> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

In article , "Colin
Barnhorst" wrote:
> "Helpful Harry" wrote in message
>
> > In article , "Colin
> > Barnhorst" wrote:
> >
> >> There is a lot of misinformation here. I hope the following helps.
> >>
> >> First, all editions of Vista will run in a virtualized environment. I
> >> have
> >> run both Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium using VPC 2007 on a
> >> MacBook
> >> Pro (Windows partition).
> > <snip>
> >
> > It's simply the same as re-using the copy of Windows from Virtual PC
> > with Parallels ... it can be done, but the licensing aggreement that
> > you leaglly aggree to by installing the product does not allowed to do
> > it, and anyone that ignores those rules is being a greedy, selfish
> > moron.
>
> I know that. I am simply clarifying the difference between what runs and
> what is supported. There is a ton of misinformation on that topic. There
> are a lot of statements that simply are not true.

I don't know that anyone has said it won't run at all (I do vaguely
recall someone once syaing that Virtual PC's emulated computer didn't
meet the hardware requirements), only that you not allowed to run
certain versions under Virtual PC and that it probably runs slowly
under Virtual PC.

What is "supported" or not is irrelevant in this topic ... no company I
know of supports illegally used software.



> Licensing is yet another topic and is equally misunderstood. An example of
> that is the difference between licensing virtual machines when running a
> retail copy of Vista versus a volume license or Software Assurance copy. In
> the latter case the EULA for Vista Enterprise and Ultimate permit the
> licensing of four virtualized copies of Windows and the virtualization
> software used does not even have to be Microsoft's. Just an example of how
> convoluted all this can be.

Microsoft having so many different versions of their operating system
is crazy enough ... although rumours are saying the next Mac OS X will
have a pile of different ones too, but I'm guessing that's just some
idiot misreporting the two existing versions (Server and User) plus the
modified version supposedly running on the iPhone.

Almost nobody actually reads those legalese agreements and even fewer
actually understand them.

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

The question was answered just fine. Simply read. I will reiterate.

VPC 2007 runs fine on Vista Home Premium (as the host) but is not
"supported" (no tech support from Microsoft Product Support Services). You
will get an advisory that the host system is not supported at the time you
install. This is not an error message, just an advisory. Click past the
message to install. That has nothing to do with "running."

Vista Home Premium runs fine (as a guest) in VPC 2007 but licensing
restricts the use of VHP severely. So far as I know, MSDN subscribers may
run Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium as guests in a testing and
development environment but consumers are not licensed to use either product
under VPC at all. Again, that has nothing to do with "running."

It makes no difference whether your host is VHP, Business, or Ultimate as
far as VPC 2007 running is concerned, but if you encounter technical issues
you can get help from MS for Business or Ultimate but you are on your own
with VHP.

This is not all that complicated, folks.

"ninjadmin" wrote in message

>I noticed this too.
> I read everyone's replies which don't really answer your question.
> I'm hoping to figure this out too, since I'm also using Windows Vista
> Premium and want to use Ubuntu in a virtual PC machine setup.
>
> Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 works if you have Vista Enterprise, Business,
> and
> Ultimate. You can run Premium, but can not use Premium with the VPC 2007.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/overview.mspx
>
> I considered upgrading to Ultimate, but I would rather find a more better
> option.
>
>
>
>
> "Abe" wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> it looks like virtual pc for vista home premium is not available. Does
>> anyone have any alternatives to run virtual pc's on my machine?
>>
>> Thanks!
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

Thanks for the clarification.
I'll try it out.
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

Another way of thinking of this is that VPC 2007 is a business product and
its use with consumer editions of Windows is not supported. Support is only
available for its use with business editions of Windows, host and guest.
And remember, "supported" has nothing to do with "runs."

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message

> The question was answered just fine. Simply read. I will reiterate.
>
> VPC 2007 runs fine on Vista Home Premium (as the host) but is not
> "supported" (no tech support from Microsoft Product Support Services).
> You will get an advisory that the host system is not supported at the time
> you install. This is not an error message, just an advisory. Click past
> the message to install. That has nothing to do with "running."
>
> Vista Home Premium runs fine (as a guest) in VPC 2007 but licensing
> restricts the use of VHP severely. So far as I know, MSDN subscribers may
> run Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium as guests in a testing and
> development environment but consumers are not licensed to use either
> product under VPC at all. Again, that has nothing to do with "running."
>
> It makes no difference whether your host is VHP, Business, or Ultimate as
> far as VPC 2007 running is concerned, but if you encounter technical
> issues you can get help from MS for Business or Ultimate but you are on
> your own with VHP.
>
> This is not all that complicated, folks.
>
> "ninjadmin" wrote in message
>
>>I noticed this too.
>> I read everyone's replies which don't really answer your question.
>> I'm hoping to figure this out too, since I'm also using Windows Vista
>> Premium and want to use Ubuntu in a virtual PC machine setup.
>>
>> Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 works if you have Vista Enterprise, Business,
>> and
>> Ultimate. You can run Premium, but can not use Premium with the VPC 2007.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/overview.mspx
>>
>> I considered upgrading to Ultimate, but I would rather find a more better
>> option.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Abe" wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> it looks like virtual pc for vista home premium is not available. Does
>>> anyone have any alternatives to run virtual pc's on my machine?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

In article , "Colin
Barnhorst" wrote:

> Another way of thinking of this is that VPC 2007 is a business product and
> its use with consumer editions of Windows is not supported. Support is only
> available for its use with business editions of Windows, host and guest.
> And remember, "supported" has nothing to do with "runs."

And neither has anything to do with the FACT that it's ILLEGAL to run
the "Home" versions of Vista under emulation / virtualisation, and that
includes Virtual PC, Parallels Desktop and VMWare. So stop telling
people they can. :o\

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

Almost right, but not quite, I believe:

Actually Vista Home and Premium licenses DO NOT disallow running them
inside a VM. What they do prohibit is running a SECOND COPY in a VM,
if that license is already installed on a non-virtual machine (the
"licensed device" in the EULA).

GOOD LUCK


On May 12, 9:51 am, "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
(...)
> Vista Home Premium runs fine (as a guest) in VPC 2007 but licensing
> restricts the use of VHP severely. So far as I know, MSDN subscribers may
> run Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium as guests in a testing and
> development environment but consumers are not licensed to use either product
> under VPC at all. Again, that has nothing to do with "running."
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

On Jun 9, 9:34 pm, wrote:
> Almost right, but not quite, I believe:
>
> Actually Vista Home and Premium licenses DO NOT disallow running them
> inside a VM. What they do prohibit is running a SECOND COPY in a VM,
> if that license is already installed on a non-virtual machine (the
> "licensed device" in the EULA).
>
> GOOD LUCK
>
> On May 12, 9:51 am, "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:
> (...)
>
>
>
> > Vista Home Premium runs fine (as a guest) in VPC 2007 but licensing
> > restricts the use of VHP severely. So far as I know, MSDN subscribers may
> > run Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium as guests in a testing and
> > development environment but consumers are not licensed to use either product
> > under VPC at all. Again, that has nothing to do with "running."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



The EXACT quote from the EULA for both the Home Basic and Premium
versions states:

"You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within
a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system."


It is very SIMPLE and very CLEAR. You are NOT permitted to use it.
PERIOD!!

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.

Whether it will or will not work is irrelevant. It is NOT supported
because it is ILLEGAL! Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.

Why is this so HARD to understand??????
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

(Touchy subject? I'm sorry that you took offense; none is intended!
Unfortunately, something that appears to be simple and clear is
interpreted in different ways, depending on the reader.)

I think the key qualifying words are "the software installed on the
licensed device". Here are a couple of links I've seen...
particularly the interpretation by Ed Bott:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=157
http://www.jepstone.net/blog/2007/02/12/does-the-vista-eula-really-pro...it-virt

Of course, some interpret it differently, so some clarification from
Microsoft would certainly be helpful:
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=26242&m...ageID=4
http://parallelsvirtualization.blogspot.com/2007/01/vista-is-here-so-w...-does-i

Perhaps that last link is the most authorative? The VM companies have
much to gain by dispelling this confusion. ANYWAY, it's probably wise
to be conservative in the interpretation, like the previous poster.


> The EXACT quote from the EULA for both the Home Basic and Premium
> versions states:
>
> "You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within
> a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system."
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium? 

On Jun 19, 11:33 am, wrote:
> (Touchy subject? I'm sorry that you took offense; none is intended!
> Unfortunately, something that appears to be simple and clear is
> interpreted in different ways, depending on the reader.)
>
> I think the key qualifying words are "the software installed on the
> licensed device". Here are a couple of links I've seen...
> particularly the interpretation by Ed Bott:
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=157
> http://www.jepstone.net/blog/2007/02/12/does-the-vista-eula-really-pr...
>
> Of course, some interpret it differently, so some clarification from
> Microsoft would certainly be helpful:
> http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=26242&...
> http://parallelsvirtualization.blogspot.com/2007/01/vista-is-here-so-...
>
> Perhaps that last link is the most authorative? The VM companies have
> much to gain by dispelling this confusion. ANYWAY, it's probably wise
> to be conservative in the interpretation, like the previous poster.
>
>
>
> > The EXACT quote from the EULA for both the Home Basic and Premium
> > versions states:
>
> > "You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within
> > a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



For every post on this issue, you will get a different response with a
different interpretation. Take a look at it from the logical point of
view:

Does M$ want you to use their product in a 'foreign' environment?
Parallels desktop would be a foreign environment to Microsoft.
Apparently not is the answer. Why? M$ will not provide support for ANY
version of Windows in Parallels. What about BootCamp? Still in beta
development and no support provided by Apple or Microsoft. I also
believe that there will probably be no support for Windows when
BootCamp comes out of beta as there is a breakdown in communication
between the two companies (over proprietary rights, I believe).

Anyway, back to virtualization and emulation environments. The
interpretation of 're-use' of the product, as in the case of your
first link is wrong. In another part of the EULA, it spectfically
states that you may install the product on 1 machine only. In
addition, you may transfer the license to another machine ONE TIME
ONLY. What does that mean? You can go out and buy Vista and install it
on your PC. Six months from now, you get a new PC without an OS. You
can transfer Vista to that machine. That's it. Any future PCs will
require another license. BIG difference between this EULA and that of
earlier Windows versions.

Again, there will be many interpretations by people who wish to
'adapt' the EULA to their own requirements. But that doesn't make it
legal or proper. Perhaps you might want to consult a lawyer for help.

Anyway, the EULA makes for some very interesting reading.
 >> Stay informed about: Virtual PC for Vista Home Premium?