Is Word "2007" possible on Office 2008?

For Word Count--Word | Preferences | View, check Status Bar and Live
Word Count. (I personally hate this feature as encouraging neuroses, but
many people love it).

No Ribbon on the Mac.

You've got the same options to change the UI as you did in Word
2004--the best you'd be able to do is use the View | Customize Toolbars
to customize your own preferred setup. E.g., you can set up fast access
to frequently used dialog boxes, put common commands on the toolbar. You
can't do anything to make it contextually respondent, though. And while
you can change which panels the Formatting Palette ("Inspector") shows,
you can't change the commands on the FP.

I hate the FP and just use a long custom toolbar across the top, set up
for my own needs.

Long posts are fine--thoughtful people make posting messages on this
group fun. Good luck with grad school.

It's partially Apple design--taking away the File, Edit menus, etc,
would break Apple's guidelines and incur howls of outrage from Mac
users. It got howls on the Windows side, too, but on Windows the market
is different and people are more trapped into using Word. On the Mac
side, such massive changes would have killed sales.

Daiya

TXCiclista.TakeThisOut@officeformac.com wrote:
> The title may be confusing, but allow me a second to explain. When I
> finally received and installed Office '08 a few weeks ago, I was a bit
> disappointed. It's not that it's not a full-fledged word processor or
> that it doesn't do what I would expect Word to do. It is and it does.
> The problem was that I had been using Word 2007 for several months.
> Word 2008 seemed "less efficient" for lack of a better term. Of
> course, I got used to it, but then sat down at a computer with 2007
> today and all the old disappointments came back up...
>
> So, are the following "issues" a result of Apple design philosophy? A
> setting I've missed? Both? Neither? etc...
>
> 1. The Ribbon! Wow, what a delight that was in "PC Word" but it's
> basically absent in Mac Word. I know we have the Inspector, but it's
> nowhere near as efficient as the ribbon, esp on computer with limited
> vertical rsolution (such as a Macbook).
>
> 2. Word count. As a grad student, this can be a handy thing to have
> sitting in the lower lefthand corner in PC Word. I know I can get it
> through a drop-down in Mac Word, but an "always on" option would be nice.
>
> 3. Fast access to dialog boxes. Another benefit to the Ribbon in PC
> Word. I still have to go to the Menu Bar in Mac Word.
>
> There are, of course, others but these stand out most to me. I know
> that everything PC Word has Mac Word has (and the latter has some nice
> extras such as the brilliant notebook-type view). It just seems to me
> that the Mac presentation is less efficient. On the other hand, it is
> certainly "less cluttered" (though I consider the Inspector to be one
> of THE most cramped interfaces I've ever witnessed).
>
> Anyway, are these things I'll just have to get used to as a mac user
> (i.e. "Yes, Finder sucks compared to WIndows Explorer, but get used to
> it" adjustment)? Are they the trade-offs that come with choosing one
> OS over another? Or are there some things I can do to get some of the
> Word 2007 "appearance" back into Mac Word? And if someone has written
> a "How to make Word 2008 look like Word 2007" guide, just point me in
> that direction and I'll sort it out :)
>
> Thanks for your time and sorry if it's a long post.
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

OK, thanks for the comments.<br>
<br>
Corentin, I think your choice of the word "replace" with respect to the Elements gallery is my exact issue. I think the Ribbon in Office 2007 is brilliant. "Replacing" it with the Elements Gallery is (for me) a complete travesty. I won't use 95% of the EG in regular everyday use, but the Ribbon found regular use. I guess Inspector just isn't my cup of tea (I really haven't liked it any program I've used on the Mac).<br>
<br>
Ah well, such are the differences. I guess this would be my only complaint about the switch to Mac. Otherwise, I am quite happy. I'll just have to get used to "backwards" Mac Word ;)<br>
<br>
Thank you both for the help :)<br>
<br>
PS One of the reasons for the Ribbon was that something like 80% of MS Office feature requests pre-2007 were for features that were already present! Microsoft realized that a radical restructuring of the interface was in order. Once you get used to it (the Ribbon), it's actually far more efficient than the "old" interface. I guess the MacBU didn't read that report ;)
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

TXCiclista RemoveThis @officeformac.com wrote:
> PS One of the reasons for the Ribbon was that something like 80% of MS
> Office feature requests pre-2007 were for features that were already
> present! Microsoft realized that a radical restructuring of the
> interface was in order. Once you get used to it (the Ribbon), it's
> actually far more efficient than the "old" interface. I guess the
> MacBU didn't read that report ;)
They chose not to risk their users' pain while getting used to it.

I was at Macworld, acting as a volunteer in the MacBU booth just when
Office 2008 was launched. No one came up wanting the ribbon in Office
2008. Lots of people came up worried that Office 2008 had the ribbon and
they'd be unable to get any work done, just as happened to the friend
forced to use Office 2007 at work.

I also could be wrong on this, but I'd guess that in general, Mac users
might be better about taking control of their computers and finding
those hidden features than Win users. That is, let's say only 40-50% of
feature requests from Mac users were for features that were already
present in MacOffice. I've got no data to back that up, just a general
impression from reading the MacOffice forums and the WinWord forums. My
personal custom toolbar is more efficient for me than anything any
branch of MS could design, and I would not be surprised if there is a
higher rate of customization among Mac users than Win users.

Of course, as more people switch, generalizations about Mac users vs Win
users become less valid.

Daiya
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

In article ,
TXCiclista DeleteThis @officeformac.com wrote:

> 2. Word count. As a grad student, this can be a handy thing to have sitting
> in the lower lefthand corner in PC Word. I know I can get it through a
> drop-down in Mac Word, but an "always on" option would be nice.

It's there. Preferences / View / Live Word Count

--

"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter
and open a vein." -- Red Smith
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Thanks again for the comments. I think I'm finding that Mac Word is less "intuitive" than Windows, which is fascinating given the platform. let me give an example (sort of from another thread): toolbar button separators. You actually have to right-click on the icon and tell it not to begin a new group (thanks to whoever pointed that out to me) instead of being able to dragi t a few pixels to the left and it "senses" that you don't want a separator. The right-click method is terribly inefficient, especially when you're dragging the buttons off another bar and everyone defaults to new group. I would expect that kind of "tedious" behavior from Windows, not Mac and yet, Windows behaves "correctly" in this situation.<br>
<br>
Ah well, this is part of the fun of learning a new program :) I do like Mac Word if for no other reason than the native support. And it really does have some cool stuff. I guess I just wish I could pick and choose what I like from both and combine them. Then again, if we could do that, we'd have the computer we truly deserve instead of being at the mercy of Jobs and Gates. perhaps Ralph Nader will wade in an save us ;)
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

In article ,
TXCiclista.TakeThisOut@officeformac.com wrote:

> Thanks again for the comments. I think I'm finding that Mac Word is less
> "intuitive" than Windows, which is fascinating given the platform. let me
> give an example (sort of from another thread): toolbar button separators. You
> actually have to right-click on the icon and tell it not to begin a new group
> (thanks to whoever pointed that out to me) instead of being able to dragi t a
> few pixels to the left and it "senses" that you don't want a separator. The
> right-click method is terribly inefficient, especially when you're dragging
> the buttons off another bar and everyone defaults to new group. I would
> expect that kind of "tedious" behavior from Windows, not Mac and yet, Windows
> behaves "correctly" in this situation.<br>

"Correct" behavior is so much in the eye of the beholder -- and what one
is used to. When I switched from DOS (!) to Mac -- bypassing Windows --
I started off with WordPerfect for Mac -- and liked it a lot more than
Word 5.1. It was more "intuitive" and in many ways a far better program.
All those unwanted prompts and completely unnecessary extra steps to do
the simplest things drive me up the wall as much now as they ever did.

Page numbering that starts on page two, anyone? It is a huge PITA to
figure out, but it's something that just about anyone would want.
Aligning text Left, Center and Right on the same line? Good luck!

However, much of what I didn't (and still don't) like about Word is not
so much that it is Word, but that it's not WP -- in which these tings
were easy.

Well now I live in a world where WP is no longer supported, doesn't run
under Leopard, won't run on an Intel Mac and *all* my clients are on
Word... so I switched to Word 3-4 years ago, and although I still think
it's bloatware and silly things about it are annoying, I am bound to say
that it is a *very* powerful program. The Track Changes feature alone is
worth the price of admission in my line of work.

I guess I'm getting used to it or something.

And PS -- I just found this NG about 10 days ago. It's an amazing
resource. The knowledge and willingness to help that is floating around
here is remarkable.

--

"There's nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter
and open a vein." -- Red Smith
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

I try to avoid the word "intuitive" when discussing software, I think
it's a bit of a fallacy. But in general, everyone who calls the Mac
"intuitive" will add "except for MS Office." MacOffice operates in a
sort of halfway house where they have to be both "like WinOffice" and
"Mac-like", so unsurprisingly, no one is ever happy.

Word 2007 was overhauled at great cost and effort (and pain for the
people forced to use it) to try to make it "intuitive." Word 2008 had
some minor changes made--it's no more tedious than Word 2002 or 2003,
I'm pretty sure.

TXCiclista DeleteThis @officeformac.com wrote:
> Thanks again for the comments. I think I'm finding that Mac Word is
> less "intuitive" than Windows, which is fascinating given the
> platform. let me give an example (sort of from another thread):
> toolbar button separators. You actually have to right-click on the
> icon and tell it not to begin a new group (thanks to whoever pointed
> that out to me) instead of being able to dragi t a few pixels to the
> left and it "senses" that you don't want a separator. The right-click
> method is terribly inefficient, especially when you're dragging the
> buttons off another bar and everyone defaults to new group. I would
> expect that kind of "tedious" behavior from Windows, not Mac and yet,
> Windows behaves "correctly" in this situation.
>
> Ah well, this is part of the fun of learning a new program :) I do
> like Mac Word if for no other reason than the native support. And it
> really does have some cool stuff. I guess I just wish I could pick and
> choose what I like from both and combine them. Then again, if we could
> do that, we'd have the computer we truly deserve instead of being at
> the mercy of Jobs and Gates. perhaps Ralph Nader will wade in an save
> us ;)
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Yes, I think you're exactly right. 2008 is very similar to 2003 (PC) to me (except 2003 still handled button separators better ;) ). I guess I was expecting the radical overhaul from WinOffice to carry over to MacOffice. It didn't and I'm a bit disappointed. But as I said, the Intel support alone is worth the price of admission. I'm generally satisfied, just not "overjoyed" as I anticipated. Such is life ;)
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Yeah, I'm with you...

They made a decision not to bring the Ribbon to Mac Office 2008.

That was partly because they thought they would cop too much flack from Mac
users if they did.

The users who complain about the Ribbon have not used it for any length of
time. I know this, because I was one of the most rabid anti-ribbon people
when it arrived. I am embarrassed to report that it took me about two
months to get the hang of the Ribbon :-)

My initial problem with it was that I missed the point!! I like to think
that I am smarter than everyone (of course, modesty forbids... But I still
try to tell myself that...). So it was humiliating to me when the penny
finally dropped :-)

Imagine my embarrassment when I got to Office 2008 and discovered the
Elements Gallery ... Which seems to have neatly combined the worst of both
worlds... Once you're used to the Ribbon, the Elements Gallery + Toolbars +
Menus is pathetically clunky and fiddly. And you can't get rid of the
Elements Gallery...

Hopefully, we'll get the real Ribbon next time. It's not perfect, but it's
way ahead of what we have now.

Cheers

On 5/02/08 9:48 AM, in article ee8bffe.8.RemoveThis@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"TXCiclista@officeformac.com" wrote:

> Yes, I think you're exactly right. 2008 is very similar to 2003 (PC) to me
> (except 2003 still handled button separators better ;) ). I guess I was
> expecting the radical overhaul from WinOffice to carry over to MacOffice. It
> didn't and I'm a bit disappointed. But as I said, the Intel support alone is
> worth the price of admission. I'm generally satisfied, just not "overjoyed" as
> I anticipated. Such is life ;)

--
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Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Yeah, to me, the Ribbon was brilliantly simple: "no more Menu Bar." Everything you needed was there in the ribbon, grouped intelligently, graphically based and context-sensitive. It was, of course, a major shock to the "old way of doing things" and really took some time to get used to. But once you did, productivity shot up. Say what you will about Microsoft, but the one thing they have on Apple in spades (imho) is that they really do look at how to save "man hours" (driven by the corporate bean-counters who track hat kind of stuff). Once you learn it, Office 07 is quite possibly the most efficient interface ever.<br>
<br>
Ah well, guess we'll have to wait for Mac Office 2012, huh? ;)
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Don't hold your breath if Office Mac makes it to 2012 I will be very
surprised.

Every time Jobs has added a minor tweak here or there in software
bundled with a Mac Computer; MS and other companies have instead of
realizing for the most part they are geared to people that wouldn't
purchase other products any way, that most that use them tend to be
dabblers. Or he adds them just to see if and how they will work.Other
software companies get Pixxed off and yank software rather than compete
by adding features or improving features removing bugs so That they by
the second party software anyway. especially MS.

Because of Apples release of Pages, and numbers and such. I'll be
surprised if Office Mac makes it. I am seriously thinking 2008 is it.

Look at past track record. Upon Release of Safari a patched up version
of Konqueror for Linux/UNIX. MS Yanked IE off of the mac Platform. I
still have sites I need to go to that, certain Features only work on IE
and nothing else. I've asked for support for FireFox/ SeaMonkey and the
response is equivalent to blow it out your axx. When Quicktime finally
figured out a way to add an extension plugin to play WMA/WMV files They
pulled Windows Media Player for Mac. another stepped up to help -
Flip4Mac - but MS Refuses adamantly to license their Digital Rights
Management code. Thus Crippling Macs ability to view any and all WMV/WMA
files that use DRM.

So don't hold your breath. And be shocked if you do see a 20012.

I am putting on my asbestos suit now, expecting The MVP and MS defenders
explain why it wasn't feasible to continue WMP for Mac or IE or OE.

TXCiclista.RemoveThis@officeformac.com wrote:
> Yeah, to me, the Ribbon was brilliantly simple: "no more Menu Bar."
> Everything you needed was there in the ribbon, grouped intelligently,
> graphically based and context-sensitive. It was, of course, a major
> shock to the "old way of doing things" and really took some time to get
> used to. But once you did, productivity shot up. Say what you will about
> Microsoft, but the one thing they have on Apple in spades (imho) is that
> they really do look at how to save "man hours" (driven by the corporate
> bean-counters who track hat kind of stuff). Once you learn it, Office 07
> is quite possibly the most efficient interface ever.
>
> Ah well, guess we'll have to wait for Mac Office 2012, huh? ;)

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 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I was kind of joking about "2012" since I've heard similar arguments about MacOffice. I even heard it about 2008 until it became "official." If Apple continues a yearly upgrade cycle on iWork, it's conceivable that they'll catch up, (though I don't see Numbers ever becoming as robust as Excel)
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008? 

Planning is currently underway to determine the features to be built for
Office 2012 on the Mac.

Some years ago, Steve Ballmer generously offered to negotiate the rights to
use Microsoft DRM standards in return for the rights to use Apple's AAC
standards. For some unaccountable reason, the offer was declined :-)

Some of us are going to Redmond in April to "ensure" that Microsoft
understands what its users on the Mac "want" in the next version.

So make sure we know YOUR thoughts by then, so we are in a position to argue
your case for you.

Requests substantiated in the form "In my company, 3,500 Mac users would use
this feature to do ..." will get a hell of a lot more airtime than "I want
it 'cause it would be really really cool and Microsoft sux!!"

Cheers


On 6/02/08 4:49 AM, in article ee8bffe.12 RemoveThis @webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"TXCiclista@officeformac.com" wrote:

> Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I was kind of joking about "2012" since
> I've heard similar arguments about MacOffice. I even heard it about 2008 until
> it became "official." If Apple continues a yearly upgrade cycle on iWork, it's
> conceivable that they'll catch up, (though I don't see Numbers ever becoming
> as robust as Excel)

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:john@mcghie.name
 >> Stay informed about: Is Word ""2007"" possible on Office 2008?