alt.comp.os.windows-xp

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In article <timmcn-F0C1C2.10564116032008.DeleteThis@news.iphouse.com>,
Tim McNamara <timmcn.DeleteThis@bitstream.net> wrote:

> > > > Motor vehicles are massively subsidized, period. Roads are
> > > > > basically all paid for with public funding, trillions of
> > > > > dollars of it, and are the biggest form of subsidy for cars.
> > > >
> > > > Last I looked, and feel free to show where I am wrong, most of
> > > > the money for roads came from users fees (gas taxes, excise taxes
> > > > on batteries, state property or wheel taxes when you got the
> > > > plates, etc.) That is not really subsidizing in the econ sense.
> > > > Although I have thought that Fed gas taxes shoulda been cut to
> > > > just about nothing following the completion of the original
> > > > Interstate system, let the states increase their taxes and let
> > > > them spend it as they see fit.
> > >
> > > General funds (including personal and corporate income taxes) at
> > > both the federal and state levels, especially through earmarking
> > > but also through the budgetary process.
> > >
> > Nothing personal, but again, SHOW me where I am wrong. The other side
> > of that, admittedly a condition I just added this second, is if there
> > is general funding, what %age of the funds come from general sources.
> > You did say "massive" after all.
>
> This is information that 30 seconds of googling would find- and frankly,
> I have a life and little time. Look it up for yourself. Here's a
> starting point with very old information (80s-90s) which includes most
> of the stuff you ask for:
YOU want to make the statement that motorvehicles are "massively
subsidized" and then want me to look up the information to make your
point?


>
> http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/summer96/p96su24.htm
>
> Back in 1993 it was something like $37 billion. I think that qualifies
> as "massive," don't
Not necessarily since your article did not really show WHERE
the money came from. I am saying that it isn't "massive" and it isn't a
subsidy because the money comes from gasoline taxes and other user fees.
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In article <timmcn-57E2A4.11083216032008 DeleteThis @news.iphouse.com>,
Tim McNamara <timmcn DeleteThis @bitstream.net> wrote:

> What "overflow" is that? In my state the gas tax falls far, far short
> of paying for road construction and maintenance. There is no "overflow"
> that goes to the general fund- just the opposite, in fact. Millions of
> dollars flow from the general fund to roads.
>
> As for "heavily taxed," that's a subjective statement. The gas tax in
> my state hasn't been adjusted in 20+ years.
>
> Here's a few things that a few seconds of googling turned up. Take some
> responsibility and look it up for yourself next time:
Again we should take responsibility for backing up YOUR statements
when we asked where you got them?

>
> http://www.bts.gov/publications/transportation_statistics_annual_report/2
> 005/html/chapter_02/government_transportation_expenditures.html

No statement of any kind on where the $$ came from. Can't be subsidy
if the money comes from user fees.

>
> http://www.bts.gov/publications/transportation_statistics_annual_report/2
> 005/html/chapter_02/government_transportation_investment.html

Heck this one actually makes OUR point
"The net flow of funds to and from the federal government for
passenger transportation varies by mode and over time (figure 10-8). On
average, transit received $5.1 billion (in chained 2000 dollars1) per
year in net federal subsidies2 between 1992 and 2002, more than any
other mode of transportation. ****During this same period, highway
users paid an average of $7.8 billion a year in excess of user charge
payments, such as fuel taxes, over their allocated costs, making highway
travel the only mode of transportation whose net federal subsidy showed
negative values for the entire period [1].*** (emphasis mine).

http://www.bts.gov/publications/transportation_statistics_annual_report/2
005/html/chapter_02/federal_subsidies_to_passenger_transportation.html
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In article <kZ6dnTpSesF8MEPanZ2dnUVZ_uPinZ2d DeleteThis @giganews.com>,
Lewis <g.kreme DeleteThis @gmail.com.dontsendmecopiesofposts> wrote:

> In article <tim.streater-251A2A.17080217032008 DeleteThis @news.individual.net>,
> Tim Streater <tim.streater DeleteThis @dante.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <K8edndKDcMjvhkPanZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d DeleteThis @giganews.com>,
> > Lewis <g.kreme DeleteThis @gmail.com.dontsendmecopiesofposts> wrote:
> >
> > > In article
> > > <wyvern-8211EC.00361617032008 DeleteThis @sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> > > Madwen <wyvern DeleteThis @nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Though I take your meaning, I find the terms Right and Left, as used in
> > > > the political context, not too meaningful anymore. We need better
> > > > terms
> > >
> > > Fascists and Whiners?
> >
> > Fine by me, but you've only covered the left wing.
>
> Spoken like a true fascist. :p

Hardly. Over here we have various sorts of lefties (such as Animal
"Rights" anti-vivisectionists) who seem to think it's OK to go around
bashing people whose views they disagree with - or trashing their
houses, setting their cars on fire, you know the sort of thing. All the
stuff that the Nazis and communists used to do in Germany early last
century. All such are Fascists as far as I'm concerned.
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In article <F-WdnTEYUt4eXkPanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d RemoveThis @giganews.com>,
Lewis <g.kreme RemoveThis @gmail.com.dontsendmecopiesofposts> wrote:

>
> Over here we have a different brand of fascism. "My country right or
> wrong" "America: Love it or leave it" "You're either supporting the
> President, or supporting terrorist" "Anti-war is anti-American", etc.

Yeah but these tend to be bipartisan, and are more based on who is in
office at the time. Don't know how old you are, but most of these were
first trotted out for LBJ in Viet Nam.

>
> These are the positions favorite by our right wing, which is like your
> Conservatives.
Or by the Left Wing when one of THEIRs "owns" the war.

>
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In article <michelle-6305FD.15001917032008 DeleteThis @news.west.cox.net>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle DeleteThis @michelle.org> wrote:

> In article
> <kurtullman-D26A05.17300217032008 DeleteThis @70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net>,
> Kurt Ullman <kurtullman DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Over here we have a different brand of fascism. "My country right
> > > or wrong" "America: Love it or leave it" "You're either supporting
> > > the President, or supporting terrorist" "Anti-war is
> > > anti-American", etc.
> >
> > Yeah but these tend to be bipartisan, and are more based on who is in
> > office at the time. Don't know how old you are, but most of these
> > were first trotted out for LBJ in Viet Nam.
>
> Way before then. Try the 1950s and the cold war.

Good point. Shoulda left "first" out and I woudla been okay (g0.
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Kurt Ullman <kurtullman.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > You said Ford had moved all its factories out of the US. In fact, there
> > are lots of Ford factories still operating in the US.
>
> Actually I hadn't said that

Mea culpa! Sorry about that.

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On 17-Mar-2008, Michelle Steiner <michelle.RemoveThis@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article
> <kurtullman-D26A05.17300217032008.RemoveThis@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net>,
> Kurt Ullman <kurtullman.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Over here we have a different brand of fascism. "My country right
> > > or wrong" "America: Love it or leave it" "You're either supporting
> > > the President, or supporting terrorist" "Anti-war is
> > > anti-American", etc.
> >
> > Yeah but these tend to be bipartisan, and are more based on who is in
> > office at the time. Don't know how old you are, but most of these
> > were first trotted out for LBJ in Viet Nam.
>
> Way before then. Try the 1950s and the cold war.

At the risk of revealing my advanced age, may I point out that I remember
similar slogans preceding and during WW II.

My father (who was in the Army during WW I) said they also were present
around the time of WW I.

The notion that citizens are unpatriotic if they do not support all
decisions by their government leaders is very old.

But since long before 1776 it has also been very American to distrust and
disagree with government and its leaders.
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