VERY annoying Panther crash

Acid Pooh wrote:

 > Any ideas?
 > 'cid 'ooh

Run top and/or vm_stat in terminal. See if there are alotta
page-outs, any free cpu time left, free pages, etc. See how
many swap files are in use (Cmd-F swap, visibility=all).<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

In article <d7ba1f79.0407121640.3d772094.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>, Acid Pooh
<poohonlsd.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

 > I'm running 10.3.4 on a G4 PowerBook 12in and I've run into a very
 > annoying crash lately. It's probably happened five times in the last
 > few weeks. Anyhoo, while running a fairly heavy load (Safari, Mail, a
 > BitTorrent client with maybe 35 open ports, iTunes or maybe a game
 > like WarCraft III), the audio begins cycle from on to off and back,
 > the mouse intermittently quits working, and none of the UI elements
 > work. So I'm pretty much locked out of the system.
 >
 > Frankly, I haven't tried anything to stop this. Well, I tried
 > DiscWarrior, but it didn't help. I haven't figured out a way to
 > reproduce the problem, so that makes trouble shooting very difficult.
 >
 > The System log doesn't show anything unusual, which leads me to
 > believe that this is a memory issue. (As in, I don't have enough of
 > it, and in fact don't even have enough for the beachball to be
 > rendered.) But I've been running similar loads all summer with no
 > problem until recently. And this is a fairly fresh Panther install...


Same kinda thing has been happening to me -- I get a similar crash
(screen freezes, no mouse cursor, then occasional semi-functionality
for a few moments, then freeze again). Typically, I'm usually running
things like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Safari, iTunes, Thoth,
and a few other minor apps.

I'm running Panther 10.3.4 on a MDD dual 876 G4 with dual monitors and
1.25 Gig of RAM, 2 internal HD's and one ext firewire HD. I think that
there's a possibility of dual-monitors having something to do with
instability, from some hearsay of dual-monitor problems.

But I have recently tested the apps running WITHOUT running iTunes, and
I haven't had a crash yet, and it's been days! I have even replaced
using iTunes for music with running Audion 3.0, and still no crashes!!

Most of my iTunes music is not on my startup HD, but the iTunes
database folder is in my ~home/music/iTunes/ folder. I've just moved
that folder to my 2nd HD, and have redirected the iTunes prefs to that
one, and deleted the ~home/.... folder one.

I'll let you know if I have any crashes going on with this setup.

Have you tried troubleshooting without iTunes running? Please let me
know if you have any similar experiences.

cowpoke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

George Williams <nyar1ath0tep DeleteThis @mac.com> wrote in message news:<40F3507C.5CB21EE5 DeleteThis @mac.com>...
 > Acid Pooh wrote:
 >
  > > Any ideas?
  > > 'cid 'ooh
 >
 > Run top and/or vm_stat in terminal. See if there are alotta
 > page-outs, any free cpu time left, free pages, etc. See how
 > many swap files are in use (Cmd-F swap, visibility=all).

I tried this last night, with a slightly lower load than I described
in my message and got about 3000 pageouts in the first hour of
operation, with about 1000 every hour after that. Plenty of free
cycles. I didn't get the crash during this "experiment." I'll try
pushing it harder tonight.

'cid 'ooh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

Jason RemoveThis @nospam.com (Jason) wrote in message news:<Jason-1207041929400001 RemoveThis @pm2-broad-147.snlo.dialup.fix.net>...
 > In article <d7ba1f79.0407121640.3d772094 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
 > poohonlsd RemoveThis @yahoo.com (Acid Pooh) wrote:
 >
  > > Hi everybody,
  > >
  > > I'm running 10.3.4 on a G4 PowerBook 12in and I've run into a very
  > > annoying crash lately. It's probably happened five times in the last
  > > few weeks. Anyhoo, while running a fairly heavy load (Safari, Mail, a
  > > BitTorrent client with maybe 35 open ports, iTunes or maybe a game
  > > like WarCraft III), the audio begins cycle from on to off and back,
  > > the mouse intermittently quits working, and none of the UI elements
  > > work. So I'm pretty much locked out of the system.
  > >
  > > Frankly, I haven't tried anything to stop this. Well, I tried
  > > DiscWarrior, but it didn't help. I haven't figured out a way to
  > > reproduce the problem, so that makes trouble shooting very difficult.
  > >
  > > The System log doesn't show anything unusual, which leads me to
  > > believe that this is a memory issue. (As in, I don't have enough of
  > > it, and in fact don't even have enough for the beachball to be
  > > rendered.) But I've been running similar loads all summer with no
  > > problem until recently. And this is a fairly fresh Panther install...
  > >
  > > Any ideas?
  > > 'cid 'ooh
 >
 > If you have not already maxed out the amount of RAM that your mac is
 > capable of handling--I advise you to do it. It appears to me that this is
 > a memory issue. When your mac starts running out of memory--it starts
 > having problems. Of course, I am only guessing and you should pay close
 > attention to any poster that says that he or she has had the identical
 > problem and what the solution was. If you don't get such a post--follow my
 > advice before you do anything else.

I'm currently running with 512 mb and just bought a new SODIMM to
bring me up to to 768. Unfortunately, the gigabyte chips are about
$300 out of my price range. But I've been planning to do this upgrade
for about as long as I've had my powerbook (7 months now) and I've
never had this problem before.

'cid 'ooh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

Jason.DeleteThis@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in message news:<Jason-1207041929400001.DeleteThis@pm2-broad-147.snlo.dialup.fix.net>...
 > In article <d7ba1f79.0407121640.3d772094.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
 > poohonlsd.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (Acid Pooh) wrote:
 >
  > > Hi everybody,
  > >
  > > I'm running 10.3.4 on a G4 PowerBook 12in and I've run into a very
  > > annoying crash lately. It's probably happened five times in the last
  > > few weeks. Anyhoo, while running a fairly heavy load (Safari, Mail, a
  > > BitTorrent client with maybe 35 open ports, iTunes or maybe a game
  > > like WarCraft III), the audio begins cycle from on to off and back,
  > > the mouse intermittently quits working, and none of the UI elements
  > > work. So I'm pretty much locked out of the system.
  > >
  > > Frankly, I haven't tried anything to stop this. Well, I tried
  > > DiscWarrior, but it didn't help. I haven't figured out a way to
  > > reproduce the problem, so that makes trouble shooting very difficult.
  > >
  > > The System log doesn't show anything unusual, which leads me to
  > > believe that this is a memory issue. (As in, I don't have enough of
  > > it, and in fact don't even have enough for the beachball to be
  > > rendered.) But I've been running similar loads all summer with no
  > > problem until recently. And this is a fairly fresh Panther install...
  > >
  > > Any ideas?
  > > 'cid 'ooh
 >
 > If you have not already maxed out the amount of RAM that your mac is
 > capable of handling--I advise you to do it. It appears to me that this is
 > a memory issue. When your mac starts running out of memory--it starts
 > having problems. Of course, I am only guessing and you should pay close
 > attention to any poster that says that he or she has had the identical
 > problem and what the solution was. If you don't get such a post--follow my
 > advice before you do anything else.

I'm currently running with 512 mb and just bought a new SODIMM to
bring me up to to 768. Unfortunately, the gigabyte chips are about
$300 out of my price range. But I've been planning to do this upgrade
for about as long as I've had my powerbook (7 months now) and I've
never had this problem before.

'cid 'ooh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

In article <40F3507C.5CB21EE5 DeleteThis @mac.com>,
George Williams <nyar1ath0tep DeleteThis @mac.com> wrote:

 >See how
 >many swap files are in use (Cmd-F swap, visibility=all).

In what application ?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

Entity Mats Weber spoke thus:

 > In article <40F3507C.5CB21EE5.DeleteThis@mac.com>,
 > George Williams <nyar1ath0tep.DeleteThis@mac.com> wrote:
 >
  >> See how
  >> many swap files are in use (Cmd-F swap, visibility=all).
 >
 > In what application ?
Finder. Swapfiles are invisible. Search for files containing the word "swap"
with "visibility: All".

-- Gnarlie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

poohonlsd DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Acid Pooh) wrote in message news:<d7ba1f79.0407121640.3d772094 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
 > Hi everybody,
 >
 > I'm running 10.3.4 on a G4 PowerBook 12in and I've run into a very
 > annoying crash lately. It's probably happened five times in the last
 > few weeks. Anyhoo, while running a fairly heavy load (Safari, Mail, a
 > BitTorrent client with maybe 35 open ports, iTunes or maybe a game
 > like WarCraft III), the audio begins cycle from on to off and back,
 > the mouse intermittently quits working, and none of the UI elements
 > work. So I'm pretty much locked out of the system.
 >
 > Frankly, I haven't tried anything to stop this. Well, I tried
 > DiscWarrior, but it didn't help. I haven't figured out a way to
 > reproduce the problem, so that makes trouble shooting very difficult.
 >
 > The System log doesn't show anything unusual, which leads me to
 > believe that this is a memory issue. (As in, I don't have enough of
 > it, and in fact don't even have enough for the beachball to be
 > rendered.) But I've been running similar loads all summer with no
 > problem until recently. And this is a fairly fresh Panther install...
 >
 > Any ideas?
 > 'cid 'ooh

It turns out that this was a memory issue, only not as benign as not
having enough. A few days ago, I rebooted and got a kernel panic
about half way through the start up sequence. I rebooted again and
got three beeps and a blank screen. I pulled out the the accessible
SODIMM and still got the blank screen. Looks like my logic board is
toast. :-(

'cid 'ooh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

Acid Pooh wrote:
 >
 > Looks like my logic board is
 > toast. :-(
 >

Sorry to hear of it. Were there lightning storms or other static
discharges involved?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

George Williams <nyar1ath0tep.DeleteThis@mac.com> wrote in message news:<40F6CB31.FEF6AA76.DeleteThis@mac.com>...
 > Acid Pooh wrote:
  > >
  > > Looks like my logic board is
  > > toast. :-(
  > >
 >
 > Sorry to hear of it. Were there lightning storms or other static
 > discharges involved?

As far as I know, no. At first, I had those weird "crashes" (not even
the right term, since I think my processes kept running) if I let all
my ram get populated. Then it got a lot slower and my virtual memory
stats shot way up, even immediately after a prophylactic reboot.
Basically, standard windows behavior. :)

Anyway, I think those crashes were just an indication that I had
malfunctioning ram, perhaps caused by a thermal issue. (I used to run
it full tilt on my bed covers. I'll keep it on a hard surface from
now on. And I'm not a pervert, really.)

'cid 'ooh

(No, really. I'm not)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

Acid Pooh wrote:

 > Anyway, I think those crashes were just an indication that I had
 > malfunctioning ram, perhaps caused by a thermal issue.

That could well be the case. If the RAM were to get above 85 or
90 C, then it (and other components on the board) become "derated"
and non-functional, although this may be reversible when cooled.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

On 2004-07-13 17:32:05 -0400, poohonlsd.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (Acid Pooh) said:

 > Jason.TakeThisOut@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in message
 > news:<Jason-1207041929400001.TakeThisOut@pm2-broad-147.snlo.dialup.fix.net>...
  >> In article <d7ba1f79.0407121640.3d772094.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>,
  >> poohonlsd.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (Acid Pooh) wrote:
  >>
   >>> Hi everybody,
   >>>
   >>> I'm running 10.3.4 on a G4 PowerBook 12in and I've run into a very
   >>> annoying crash lately. It's probably happened five times in the last
   >>> few weeks. Anyhoo, while running a fairly heavy load (Safari, Mail, a
   >>> BitTorrent client with maybe 35 open ports, iTunes or maybe a game
   >>> like WarCraft III), the audio begins cycle from on to off and back,
   >>> the mouse intermittently quits working, and none of the UI elements
   >>> work. So I'm pretty much locked out of the system.
   >>>
   >>> Frankly, I haven't tried anything to stop this. Well, I tried
   >>> DiscWarrior, but it didn't help. I haven't figured out a way to
   >>> reproduce the problem, so that makes trouble shooting very difficult.
   >>>
   >>> The System log doesn't show anything unusual, which leads me to
   >>> believe that this is a memory issue. (As in, I don't have enough of
   >>> it, and in fact don't even have enough for the beachball to be
   >>> rendered.) But I've been running similar loads all summer with no
   >>> problem until recently. And this is a fairly fresh Panther install...
   >>>
   >>> Any ideas?
   >>> 'cid 'ooh
  >>
  >> If you have not already maxed out the amount of RAM that your mac is
  >> capable of handling--I advise you to do it. It appears to me that this is
  >> a memory issue. When your mac starts running out of memory--it starts
  >> having problems. Of course, I am only guessing and you should pay close
  >> attention to any poster that says that he or she has had the identical
  >> problem and what the solution was. If you don't get such a post--follow my
  >> advice before you do anything else.
 >
 > I'm currently running with 512 mb and just bought a new SODIMM to
 > bring me up to to 768. Unfortunately, the gigabyte chips are about
 > $300 out of my price range. But I've been planning to do this upgrade
 > for about as long as I've had my powerbook (7 months now) and I've
 > never had this problem before.
 >
 > 'cid 'ooh
All that running and only 512 MB RAM? In my datacenter I don't
consider running less than 1 GByte per processor. At home, I have 512
MB on my single Pentium III, and on my Mac G4 Dual 1.42 I have 2
GBytes. In my datacenter I have 10 GBytes on my Sun 8way , 4 GBytes
on the 4Way, 2 Gbytes on the 2 ways. .... You can choke a computer
real fast with too little RAM. Cough up the bucks and buy enough RAM
or run fewer apps.... its nice you are testing the limits but don't
complain when it fails.

Jim<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash 

In article
<2004072021465516807%jenhomesomecommoncharactercomastnet@news.comcast.gi
ganews.com>,
Jim Nason <jenhome somecommoncharacter comast.net> wrote:

   > >> In article <d7ba1f79.0407121640.3d772094 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
   > >> poohonlsd DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Acid Pooh) wrote:
   > >>
   > >>> Hi everybody,
   > >>>
   > >>> I'm running 10.3.4 on a G4 PowerBook 12in and I've run into a very
   > >>> annoying crash lately. It's probably happened five times in the last
   > >>> few weeks. Anyhoo, while running a fairly heavy load (Safari, Mail, a
   > >>> BitTorrent client with maybe 35 open ports, iTunes or maybe a game
   > >>> like WarCraft III), the audio begins cycle from on to off and back,
   > >>> the mouse intermittently quits working, and none of the UI elements
   > >>> work. So I'm pretty much locked out of the system.
   > >>>
  > >
  > > I'm currently running with 512 mb and just bought a new SODIMM to
  > > bring me up to to 768. Unfortunately, the gigabyte chips are about
  > > $300 out of my price range. But I've been planning to do this upgrade
  > > for about as long as I've had my powerbook (7 months now) and I've
  > > never had this problem before.
  > >
  > > 'cid 'ooh
 > All that running and only 512 MB RAM? .... You can choke a computer
 > real fast with too little RAM. Cough up the bucks and buy enough RAM
 > or run fewer apps.... its nice you are testing the limits but don't
 > complain when it fails.


All "that?" I'm not sure about BitTorrent since I've never used it, but
Safari, Mail, iTunes and a game should be able to run fine with "only"
512MB. Unless BitTorrent is a huge memory consumer or there's a leak
somewhere the OP shouldn't be testing the limits of that box under
normal circumstances.

I'm guessing that one of two things happened shortly before this started
happening.
a) One of or more the programs that run routinely was upgraded or
installed for the first time and memory consumption has increased
(possibly more than intended).
b) The free disk space got very low on relatively short notice and has
remained low. This could be a result of something like copying a lot of
new data to the disk, or running one of those background undelete
assistance programs that works by caching your trash contents instead of
deleting them.

--
Standard output is like your butt. Everyone has one. When using a bathroom,
they all default to going into a toilet. However, a person can redirect his
"standard output" to somewhere else, if he so chooses. - Jeremy Nixon<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: VERY annoying Panther crash