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pranakhan

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Since: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:46 am
Post subject: My dream come true?
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>mac>virtualpc (more info?)
I'm currently a professional Windows developer using .NET technologies
among many many other things. Although I develop on Windows by day, I
am a Mac user by night. Our family currently owns 4 OS X Macs at home,
and I have been sitting around just waiting for the new Intel based
Macs to hit the market.

Why? Because owning an Intel based Mac now makes Virtualizing it and
running Windows a breeze. With an x86 core, VPC will be able to run
JUST AS FAST as it does on the Windows version, which is what I
currently use at work! Yup, I run VPC for Windows at work for
development, I have an external HD full of VPC images I switch back and
forth between depending on my current consulting gig! I tried using VPC
for my G4 based iBooks and PowerBooks but they were too damn slow for
me to be productive. So, painfully, I took my Mac babies back home and
just kept working on the company issued Dell.

But now that these new Intel Macs are out, we need a new version of VPC
that can run x86 natively! Oh my God! I'll chuck the Dell out the
window and use my Mac with VPC for everything! I'll run OS X as my
desktop, giving me access to my email, IM, etc., and run VPC for Mac
with Windows XP /.NET the majority of the time in the foreground! Even
better yet, I could plug an external Cinema Display into my MacBook
Pro, and run a fast, compatible, VPC for Mac on my Cinema Display,
while glancing back at my notebook screen for my OS X apps. Then, at
the end of the day, I can save my Windows XP machine state and go back
to my 100% OS X joy at home.

I'm POSITIVE, that the Microsoft Mac Business Unit has been slaving
away at creating a new Intel-native version of VPC for Mac since Apple
released the Developer Transition machines last year. I would be
willing to bet that Microsoft already has compiled and complete
versions of a new VPC for Mac that SCREAMS on a MacBook running Windows
XP.

How about an announcement, Microsoft? When will we get our hands on the
Intel-native version of VPC for Mac? I'm dyin' here! Gimme some
water!!!

I gaurantee that the new versions of VPC, with their resulting
speed/compatibility improvements, will just serve to sell more copies
of Microsoft operating systems to hungry Mac owners everywhere! Now is
your chance!!! Take us all!!! Liberate me from DELL!!!!

Pranakhan - MCSE.NET, MCAD, MSDN Universal Subscriber

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Paul Power

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Since: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 660



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:17 pm
Post subject: Re: My dream come true? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Keep dreaming...................and.....good luck with that

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Paul J

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Since: Jan 10, 2006
Posts: 2



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: My dream come true? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On 2006-01-11 14:46:59 -0500, "pranakhan" <pranakhan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> said:

> I'm POSITIVE, that the Microsoft Mac Business Unit has been slaving
> away at creating a new Intel-native version of VPC for Mac since Apple
> released the Developer Transition machines last year. I would be
> willing to bet that Microsoft already has compiled and complete
> versions of a new VPC for Mac that SCREAMS on a MacBook running Windows
> XP.

Have you used VirtualPC for Windows? It does not scream. What we can
look forward to in the near term future is a copy of VirtualPC for Mac
that is as fast as VirtualPC for Windows. The CPU will no longer have
to be emulated, but can be virtualized. However, I've found that VPC
for Mac and VPC for Windows offer acceptable CPU performance today for
most business applications. The major bottlenecks appear to be video
performance and hard disk performance. I'm a little less positive about
these bottlenecks being overcome in the immediate future as I would
think they would require virtualization of the two components. They are
emulated now. I would expect virtualization of these components to be
in the updated features pipeline though, so that Virtual PC (Mac and
Windows) will be able to host Windows Vista and its beefed up videocard
requirements. But this is pure speculation.
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Rob Teichman

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Since: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 19



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:56 pm
Post subject: Re: My dream come true? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
You guys are forgetting that this Intel chip was built from day 1 with
virtualization in mind, so it should "scream". I would think you could even
have 1 core running one environment and the other core running a second
environment
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Richard Cardona

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Since: Dec 22, 2005
Posts: 8



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: My dream come true? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Richard Cardona

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Since: Dec 22, 2005
Posts: 8



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: My dream come true? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rob Teichman wrote:
> You guys are forgetting that this Intel chip was built from day 1 with
> virtualization in mind, so it should "scream". I would think you could even
> have 1 core running one environment and the other core running a second
> environment

These statements assume you are running a hypervisor that takes
advantage of the hardware-assisted virtualization support. The VT-x or
Pacifica specs do nothing by themselves without a lot of extra support.
The support I'm talking about is what Xen coins as 'paravirtualization.'

Apple has made zero mention of a hypervisor but I wouldn't doubt there
is one hidden in there or in the works. In other words, it's not their
top priority.

Of the hypervisors on the market, none run on OS X: Xen 3.0 runs on
certain Linux distros, Parallels runs on Windows, VMware ESX 3.0 beta
runs on bare metal. Microsoft's hypervisor is said to be in development
on a timeframe likely in the Longhorn Server timeframe (your guess here).

Then...even with a hypervisor, running OS X in VM there are the issues
of what the virtualized hardware looks like to OS X, e.g. EFI vs. BIOS,
2D video vs ATI X1600, what NIC, and finally virtualized access to the
Trusted Platform Module. This is the sort of the opposite of running
Windows on EFI.

What's really needed short-term are ports of OS-on-OS virtualization to
OS X like VMware Workstation, Mac-on-Mac, and our favorite: VPC.

My guess is that an open-source offering will be first, then one or
several of the commercial offerings. This could also be an entirely new
opportunity as there is definitely demand for this.
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