eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <1165541910.577165.137050.RemoveThis@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
> <neon_bikini.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It chokes on Adobe Illustrator.
>
> It's an ancient emulation of Postscript. If you're running Illustrator
> 3, it will probably handle it just fine. Anything newer, good luck.
>
> Sell the POS on eBay and buy a reasonably modern printer.
>
> There are Postscript level 3 printers available for under $300...
> Sometime cheap is too expensive.

Not sure how much used equipment you buy Dave, but its not like you get
to choose what is available. The 4M+ is not much different than the
AppleLaser Writer it is replacing. For a temporary solution that has
postscript, and not some cheapo $40 ink jet, I'll suffer with the 4M+
for a little while longer. You Dig? NB
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

In article <1165594570.429640.179080 DeleteThis @16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
<neon_bikini DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dave Balderstone wrote:
> > In article <1165541910.577165.137050 DeleteThis @80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
> > <neon_bikini DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It chokes on Adobe Illustrator.
> >
> > It's an ancient emulation of Postscript. If you're running Illustrator
> > 3, it will probably handle it just fine. Anything newer, good luck.
> >
> > Sell the POS on eBay and buy a reasonably modern printer.
> >
> > There are Postscript level 3 printers available for under $300...
> > Sometime cheap is too expensive.
>
> Not sure how much used equipment you buy Dave, but its not like you get
> to choose what is available. The 4M+ is not much different than the
> AppleLaser Writer it is replacing. For a temporary solution that has
> postscript, and not some cheapo $40 ink jet, I'll suffer with the 4M+
> for a little while longer. You Dig? NB
>

Then don't whine about it on usenet. You Dig?
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

In article <1165541910.577165.137050 DeleteThis @80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
neon_bikini DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:

> It chokes on Adobe Illustrator. I searched groups and found out down
> rezing from 600 to 300 dpi will help. It eliminated some errors, but
> I'm still having trouble with the fonts. Will someone explain the deal
> with downloading fonts to the 4M Plus? If I change fonts frequently,
> what do I need to do to keep postscript printing? Can I convert the PS
> output w/o creating a PDF? The 4M Plus has another language called
> PCL-- what is this?

NB-

I used a couple of these printers at work several years ago. They were
connected to Ethernet and fed by a Windows server, although I printed to
them directly using AppleTalk. I'm not aware that any of the users
stressed them as much as you might with Illustrator.

PCL is HP's proprietary Printer Control Language. I don't know of any
Apple drivers that work with it. I think you're limited to PostScript
from the Mac. I believe there is an option in the setup menu for PCL,
PostScript or Automatic. You can choose PostScript if you are the only
one printing to it, but Automatic will allow use with PCL as well.

If there is any hope for use with your Illustrator, it would be by
adding memory to the machine. Even older machines I've used, would
choke on complex images unless their memory was increased.

Fred
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

In article <fmmck-EF6DF4.14470808122006.DeleteThis@nntp.aioe.org>, Fred McKenzie
<fmmck.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:

> If there is any hope for use with your Illustrator, it would be by
> adding memory to the machine. Even older machines I've used, would
> choke on complex images unless their memory was increased.

It'll be cheaper to buy a new, inexpensive PostScript laser than to add
RAM to an old HP.
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

> It'll be cheaper to buy a new, inexpensive PostScript laser than to add
> RAM to an old HP.
Hey grumpy, If its just about the money for you, why are you posting in
a help forum?
ehehe.

The issue is the printer driver and eliminating all of the default junk
in the printer from who-knows-whos-owned-it-before. Its definately a
puzzle. Without the User Manual, I'm not ready to believe the problem
is anything more than crossed bits.

I looked at the HP web site. The first printer with ethernet and
postscript: HP LaserJet P3005d Printer Price: $649.99. If I recall, the
4M+ originally cost $600, too when it was first introduced. I really
wanted one then and now I finally got it.

NB
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

In article <1165627674.884162.244190.RemoveThis@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<neon_bikini.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > It'll be cheaper to buy a new, inexpensive PostScript laser than to add
> > RAM to an old HP.
> Hey grumpy, If its just about the money for you, why are you posting in
> a help forum?

Offering help. If you want to spend more money upgrading an obsolete
printer than you could spend buying a new one, it won't hurt my
feelings. But, this being a "help" forum (actually a news group, but
most google groupies are too clueless to figure out what usenet is, and
that they're posting to it, so you're excused) I offer useful
information whether or not it's what you WANT to read.

> ehehe.

Wipe the slobber off your chin.

> The issue is the printer driver and eliminating all of the default junk
> in the printer from who-knows-whos-owned-it-before. Its definately a
> puzzle. Without the User Manual, I'm not ready to believe the problem
> is anything more than crossed bits.

That's not the scope of the problem you originally posted. And, the
above demonstrates you don't have any real understanding about how
laser printers work.

> I looked at the HP web site.

Huzza!

> The first printer with ethernet and
> postscript: HP LaserJet P3005d Printer Price: $649.99. If I recall, the
> 4M+ originally cost $600, too when it was first introduced. I really
> wanted one then and now I finally got it.

You can buy a good PostScript printer today for a couple of hundred
bucks. You wanted a 4M+ then and now? You got one. So WTF is your
complaint? That it won't print files from a modern version of
Illustrator? ROFL! So sad. It sucks to be you.
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

> So WTF is your
> complaint?

Obviously you're the man here, right?
Dave, you have nothing to offer. You're looking to have a flame war.
For whatever reason there aren't any graphics users with real opinions
reading today, or your terrible attitude would be the minority. And, I
would have the discussion about printers, software, and graphics and
not about the surpremacy of your accounting.

Good luck with your problem,
NB
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

In article <1165684342.377676.174990.TakeThisOut@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
<neon_bikini.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

> You're looking to have a flame war.

Not at all.

Your original post was to do with Illustrator files not printing
properly to the 4M. My response was that that particular printer is
quite old and uses an emulation of PostScript that is out of date.

I came across crustier than I intended, and it caused animosity that
seems to be escalating.

So, let's backtrack...

The printer you've got is not printing Illy files (I assume a recent
version?), likely because it's PS level 1, and doesn't have enough RAM.

There's no solution to the Postscript level except to buy a new
printer, which are available for under $300. I bought a Brother HL-5040
more than a year ago that works beautifully with all of the Adobe apps,
and was under $400 CDN.

To add RAM to the 4M, I thought (based on my personal history with HP)
that you'd likely spend more than the cost of a new printer. I was
wrong. You can pick up a 16 meg SIMM for $30.
<http://www.archmemory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=23405>


So, if you have a few bucks to spare, add RAM to the printer, to the
max of either the printer or your wallet. It may or may not solve your
problem printing from Illustrator. If it doesn't, then I believe your
only option is to replace the HP with a newer printer that supports at
least Postscript level 2, and preferably level 3.

Pax?
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

In article <1165627674.884162.244190.RemoveThis@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
neon_bikini.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:

> The issue is the printer driver and eliminating all of the default junk
> in the printer from who-knows-whos-owned-it-before. Its definately a
> puzzle. Without the User Manual, I'm not ready to believe the problem
> is anything more than crossed bits.

NB-

I don't know if it applies to the 4M+, but some HP printers can be reset
to factory defaults by holding down the On Line/Off Line or Pause/Resume
button while turning on the power.

Do you have the capability to run the Classic HP LaserJet Utility? It
uses AppleTalk to access the 4M+ via Ethernet. It also works using an
ImageWriter II printer cable. between the Mac and the 4M+. That would
at least let you see how it is configured.

Fred
 >> Stay informed about: eBay purchased legacy printer - Troubleshooting help 

neon_bikini RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> I purchased a legacy HP 4M+ to temporarily replace my old Apple
> LaserWriter. Ok. Its old and I don't have a manual (HP doesn't have the
> user manual online anymore :( I needed a quick replacement and couldn't
> afford a new laser printer. I probably should have held out for a newer
> model, but I was in a hurry. The printer prints text, browsers, and
> email fine.
>
> It chokes on Adobe Illustrator. I searched groups and found out down
> rezing from 600 to 300 dpi will help. It eliminated some errors, but
> I'm still having trouble with the fonts. Will someone explain the deal
> with downloading fonts to the 4M Plus? If I change fonts frequently,
> what do I need to do to keep postscript printing? Can I convert the PS
> output w/o creating a PDF? The 4M Plus has another language called
> PCL-- what is this?
>
> I know its a lot of questions. If you print from a postscript
> application you'll likely have the real questions that I need to be
> asking. ehehe.
>
> NB
>
> PS. I x-posted with the comp.sys.hp.periperals. None of those guys are
> gonna read a mac group anyway. ehehe

I see you received a lot of replies already.

I have experience with the HP 4Mv in a graphics department.

This was originally used for the graphics department when Illustrator 8
was the bomb but it could not keep pace with the department.
I was relegated to the sales department and did a fair job as a
document printer until it's fuser unit died. (I am sorry to say with an
old laser that is looming over you now.)

When we did have to use it as a backup printer it choked allot on the
new illustrator files. THERE IS NO CURE. It is what it is. More memory
will always help but all the other comments about the Postscript
emulation are correct. There is a firmware update for some of these.
There was for the 4Mv. It is a real pain to deal with without a PC and
even with a PC I had to do a lot of work.
· Make PDF files and print those is one option. Export as a pixel
graphic and print that. Save a for print version of your file and
flatten transparencies or advanced effects.

Rule #1 The problem with paying the cheapest amount for a printer is it
WILL cost you more money than buying a better printer. If you are doing
this for a business where you bill out for your time. Slow equipment
costs you money. Now granted you will not be working 24/7 but the more
time you can give yourself for the rest of your life is extremely
valuable.

Even some of these cheaper new printers can be a little slow with
graphics but they usually can handle the job.

It is how I have gotten my employers to buy the right equipment. I
showed them what the labor and time for jobs costs them if they don't
purchase the right equipment for the job. Usually does the trick and
they stop throwing labor at every problem.

It may cost me a little more and I will scrimp and save but I apply
this to my own purchasing. My time is very valuable I hate wasting it
on slow equipment.

Getting down off of soap box.
Sorry no real answers for you.
Michael
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