Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X?

Tommy Nordgren <tommy.nordgren.DeleteThis@nospam_chello.se> wrote:

 > Also - Does Objective C support template parameters and template
 > specialisations? If so, I might try using Cocoa instead

Technically, no. Objective C doesn't need templates at all because it is
a dynamically typed language.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X? 

In article <postmaster-E64E73.23120110122004 DeleteThis @news1.east.earthlink.net>,
"Daniel T." <postmaster DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:

 > Tommy Nordgren <tommy.nordgren DeleteThis @nospam_chello.se> wrote:
 >
  > > Also - Does Objective C support template parameters and template
  > > specialisations? If so, I might try using Cocoa instead
 >
 > Technically, no. Objective C doesn't need templates at all because it is
 > a dynamically typed language.

While you can do many things in Objective C, there are also many other
things that it can't do.

Templates and dynamic typing have capabilities that don't overlap. For
example, you can use templates to do compile-time asserts. That means ou
can use the compiler to catch many errors at compile time that
Objective-C could only catch if you happen to execute the correct test
code.

With the superior type-checking of C++, you can completely eliminate the
need to manually write [thing retain], [thing release] or [thing
autorelease] (See boost::shared_ptr<> for an implementation, or the
Nitrogen project <http://nitric.sourceforge.net>.)

Take a close look at boost.org, read Alexandrescu's book, "Modern C++
Design", if you think that Objective_C doesn't need templates just
because it has dynamic typing.

--
David Phillip Oster<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X? 

David Phillip Oster <oster.RemoveThis@ieee.org> wrote:
 > In article <postmaster-E64E73.23120110122004.RemoveThis@news1.east.earthlink.net>,
 > "Daniel T." <postmaster.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
 >
  >> Tommy Nordgren <tommy.nordgren.RemoveThis@nospam_chello.se> wrote:
  >>
   >> > Also - Does Objective C support template parameters and template
   >> > specialisations? If so, I might try using Cocoa instead
  >>
  >> Technically, no. Objective C doesn't need templates at all because it is
  >> a dynamically typed language.
 >
 > While you can do many things in Objective C, there are also many other
 > things that it can't do.

Daneil T. is not entirely correct here. Objective-C is only partially
dynamically typed. Its object system is dynamically typed, but all of its
primitives lay outside of the object system and don't benefit. This means
that you can't build things like collections classes that can hold
arbitrary primitive types the way you can in a templated language, or in a
fully dynamically-typed language.

 > Templates and dynamic typing have capabilities that don't overlap. For
 > example, you can use templates to do compile-time asserts. That means ou
 > can use the compiler to catch many errors at compile time that
 > Objective-C could only catch if you happen to execute the correct test
 > code.
 >
 > With the superior type-checking of C++, you can completely eliminate the
 > need to manually write [thing retain], [thing release] or [thing
 > autorelease] (See boost::shared_ptr<> for an implementation, or the
 > Nitrogen project <http://nitric.sourceforge.net>.)
 >
 > Take a close look at boost.org, read Alexandrescu's book, "Modern C++
 > Design", if you think that Objective_C doesn't need templates just
 > because it has dynamic typing.

I don't want to start a language war, but I think I should point out that
not everybody agrees that templates offer anything useful, or that C++'s
type system is superior. I am not going to state a preference either way,
but you're stating things as fact that are much more in the realm of
opinion.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X? 

In article <1102757919.841724 RemoveThis @nfs-db1.segnet.com>,
Michael Ash <mike RemoveThis @mikeash.com> wrote:

 > I don't want to start a language war, but I think I should point out that
 > not everybody agrees that templates offer anything useful, or that C++'s
 > type system is superior. I am not going to state a preference either way,
 > but you're stating things as fact that are much more in the realm of
 > opinion.

I don't want to start a language war either, and I certainly did not
mean to imply that in C++ you can easily do everything that you can do
in Objective-C. I am in violent agreement with you: the two are
different, and neither is a superset of the other.

--
David Phillip Oster<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X? 

In article <1102757919.841724.DeleteThis@nfs-db1.segnet.com>,
Michael Ash <mike.DeleteThis@mikeash.com> wrote:

 > This means
 > that you can't build things like collections classes that can hold
 > arbitrary primitive types the way you can in a templated language, or in a
 > fully dynamically-typed language.

Rubbish. I can easily create a collection that holds only objects in
the Foo class. I can go even further, and create collections that hold
classes that merely conform to a Bar protocol, or even only those
objects that that are polymorphic for a particular -foobar method.
Those are things you cannot do in C++ (unless you wage an internal war
on its type system), and the only reason you don't see a lot of
type-defined hackery in ObjC is because, go figure, it has actual
*objects*. There is hardly every a need for a restricted collection
*because* they can contain arbitrary objects; ponder that paradox and
you'll improve your OO skills greatly.

No, you don't get the compiler checking types for you if you happen to
implement the above dynamically (e.g., [[NSTypedArray alloc]
initWithType: [NSString class]], but you do the same templating hackery
that C++ does and you're free to pollute the compile and runtime with
any number of generated sublcasses (e.g., NSStringArray, NSNumberArray,
etc. with correspondingly typed accessors) and you'd get the same
"features" some people seem to jump for joy over in C++.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X? 

On 2004-12-09 03:17:58 +0100, Tommy Nordgren
<tommy.nordgren.RemoveThis@nospam_chello.se> said:

 > I've been using PowerPlant to program for MacOS 9.
 > Since I've recently upgraded to MacOS X, and don't currently have the
 > funds to purchase a CW upgrade, I wonder wether there are any free
 > Application frameworks written in C++, that includes a User Interface
 > editor.
 > (Also - Does Objective C support template parameters and template
 > specialisations? If so, I might try using Cocoa instead)
 > Tommy Nordgren

I've already checked out the nitrogen package on sourceforge. According
to them, the nitrogen project have not released any files. The Nitrogen
packege also appears to be mainly functional in style.
I will need an object oriented framework, written in C++ or another
language with full template support, in order to port a C++ template
library that I've already written for PowerPlant 2.0 (
Distributed with Metrowerks Codewarrior Pro 5).
The current version uses inheritance from PowerPlant LPane subclasses,
in order to handle text drawing.

Tommy Nordgren<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X? 

In article <2004121417074416807%tommynordgren@nospamchellose>,
Tommy Nordgren <tommy.nordgren DeleteThis @nospam_chello.se> wrote:

 > I've already checked out the nitrogen package on sourceforge. According
 > to them, the nitrogen project have not released any files. The Nitrogen
 > packege also appears to be mainly functional in style.

Yes, it has not released any tarballs. Fetch Nitrogen using CVS, the
directions are on the on the CVS page of the project.

As for functional versus OO: Nitrogen uses the Generic Programming
features of C++, and it lets the O.S. objects hold state. But, you can
certainly write your own Pane class that "has a" HIView, and then your
pane registers carbon event handlers to give it its behavior, which in
turn call Nitrogen wrapped Carbon calls.

Nitrogen wraps Carbon and handles conversion of error codes to
exceptions, reasonable return values, and default values for rarely used
arguments so your code is easier to read and maintain.

--
David Phillip Oster<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Any free C++ Application frameworks for MacOS X?