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Since: Feb 24, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:56 am
Post subject: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>system (more info?)
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I checked out the info on http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112185,
and I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer.
My system has 4MB of RAM. What exactly would I be looking for to
upgrade it?
I see that the hard drive is SCSI. What's the biggest hard drive this
will support?
Installed on it now is system 7.0.1, but is capable of running 7.6.1.
When I checked out ebay, I found that 7.6.1 is only available on CD.
What model CD drive would be compatible with the LC II? I have an old
AppleCD 300e Plus, but it doesn't have the right type of connector on
the back.
If I want to pick up some old games, what specifics should I look for?
Am I wrong in assuming that anything on a floppy will run?
Are there any other upgrades I should look into doing? I just want
this machine to run at it's top performance for old time's sake.
Thanks in advance,
-J >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Oct 03, 2004 Posts: 2945
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<05ee8b3e-f1db-482c-8ee3-d71734c9fff6 DeleteThis @d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Jamisu <james.skow DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> I checked out the info on
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112185,
> and I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer.
This page will be useful to you.
<http://www.lowendmac.com/lc/macintosh-lc-ii.html>
> My system has 4MB of RAM. What exactly would I be looking for to
> upgrade it?
You can add a pair of 100ns, 30-pin 4MB SIMMs. This will give you a
total of 10MB usable in the machine.
> I see that the hard drive is SCSI. What's the biggest hard drive this
> will support?
The biggest SCSI drive you can find will work on it. If you're using at
least 7.5, you can use the whole thing as a single volume. Otherwise,
you'll have to carve it up into 4GB partitions.
> Installed on it now is system 7.0.1, but is capable of running 7.6.1.
> When I checked out ebay, I found that 7.6.1 is only available on CD.
> What model CD drive would be compatible with the LC II? I have an old
> AppleCD 300e Plus, but it doesn't have the right type of connector on
> the back.
Sure it does. It doesn't have the right *shape* connector, but it's
sending exactly the same signals. You just need a 25-pin to 50-pin SCSI
cable, which should be readily available on eBay.
> If I want to pick up some old games, what specifics should I look for?
> Am I wrong in assuming that anything on a floppy will run?
Abstractly, yes. I can't think of specific titles off the top of my
head, but there were certainly floppies on more powerful systems than
yours so it's possible that there's floppy-sized software that will not
run on your machine. What you should really be looking for is software
that doesn't require a higher OS version than you end up with, more
memory than you have (because pre-OS X VM was very inefficient), doesn't
require a 68040, and doesn't require an FPU unless you've determined
that you have one. It'll be on a daughtercard and should be clearly
marked '68882'. And yes, there's at least one 68030-based game that
requires an FPU and doesn't check before trying to use it. I can't
remember the name, but it's a breakout variant.
> Are there any other upgrades I should look into doing? I just want
> this machine to run at it's top performance for old time's sake.
Get the FPU if you can find it cheaply. In particular, I'd be looking
for a 3rd-party card that adds the FPU and an ethernet port. >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: May 28, 2005 Posts: 1096
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:35 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:56:59 -0500, Jamisu wrote
(in article
<05ee8b3e-f1db-482c-8ee3-d71734c9fff6.DeleteThis@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>):
> I checked out the info on
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112185,
you might want to check out <http://lowendmac.com/> and
<http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=105>
> and I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer.
>
> My system has 4MB of RAM. What exactly would I be looking for to
> upgrade it?
30 pin SIMMs. (Not, repeat, NOT, DIMMs.) You may have a problem finding new
ones.
>
> I see that the hard drive is SCSI. What's the biggest hard drive this
> will support?
It will support any SCSI I or II hard drive you can find. Personal experience
with machines of this class says that this goes up to at least 8 GB. Larger
drives should work. There is no limit, the way early ATA controllers can't
'see' past a certain size.
>
> Installed on it now is system 7.0.1, but is capable of running 7.6.1.
Errm... I think that you mean 7.5.5. In any case, using 7.6.x on a 030 is...
not a good idea. I had a IIsi, maxed the RAM (17 whole MB...) and had 7.6.1
installed. It worked. It wasn't pretty.
You should note that even though it wasn't pretty, 7.6.1 worked a hell of a
lot better than 7.5.5. I should have stopped at 7.5. That was _beautiful_.
7.5.5 was the worst OS Apple released until 10.0.4.
> When I checked out ebay, I found that 7.6.1 is only available on CD.
> What model CD drive would be compatible with the LC II?
Any SCSI I or II drive.
> I have an old
> AppleCD 300e Plus, but it doesn't have the right type of connector on
> the back.
Get a Centronix 50-to-DB25 converter. It'll work. You just have to be careful
about the SCSI ID number. IIRC, the internal drive was 0, the Mac was 7, and
the CD was usually 3. Any number not used by the drive or the Mac will do.
Make sure to properly terminate the SCSI chain. Sacrificing a goat or a
chicken in the dark of the moon is not really necessary... (Google SCSI
voodoo...)
>
> If I want to pick up some old games, what specifics should I look for?
> Am I wrong in assuming that anything on a floppy will run?
Mostly. Some very old games demand (yes, demand) 16 colours, and refuse to
run on anything else. Which was annoying when, as of System 7.something, the
Mac OS wouldn't let you go below 256 colours. The game can't tell that 256
colours are available, which is well above its requirements. It can only tell
that the video system is NOT set for 16 colours, and will refuse to run.
There are other games which behave similarly, only with 256 colours. Examples
of bad programming.
>
> Are there any other upgrades I should look into doing? I just want
> this machine to run at it's top performance for old time's sake.
I can't think of any off-hand, but it's been a few years since I ran anything
of that type.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -J
>
>
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Dec 12, 2007 Posts: 87
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Nov 03, 2007 Posts: 122
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jamisu wrote:
> I checked out the info on http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112185,
> and I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer.
>
> My system has 4MB of RAM. What exactly would I be looking for to
> upgrade it?
Here's a better page about it.
Since it has 4m of RAM on the motherboard, it can be upgraded to 10 meg
maximum by adding an 8 MEG 72 pin SIMM. Yes, that's 12 meg, but it can not
address the last 2m, so they sit empty. You have to enable 32 bit addressing
to access RAM over 8m.
Check the size of the VRAM SIMM. If you have 256k you are more limited in
resolutions provided by the on board video.
> I see that the hard drive is SCSI. What's the biggest hard drive this
> will support?
Same size. :-) 3.5 inch low profile, low power. :-)
I have a 1 gig in my LC. If you can find one that fits, and driver
software for it, you can go to whatever will fit and not consume
more power. There are some issues with older versions of the System,
and hard drive size. I think the largest you will be able to find is
4gig.
The original hard drive was either 40m or 80m. That's megabytes, not
gigabytes.
The internal drive must be terminated.
> Installed on it now is system 7.0.1, but is capable of running 7.6.1.
> When I checked out ebay, I found that 7.6.1 is only available on CD.
> What model CD drive would be compatible with the LC II? I have an old
> AppleCD 300e Plus, but it doesn't have the right type of connector on
> the back.
It never did. Apple never sold a CD drive with the "right type of connector"
on it. You had to get an APPLE SCSI 25pin to 50 pin cable. Apple CD drives
will also need a terminator at the far end of the cable.
If you get the correct cable and terminator, it should work with your
computer. There are some issues with drive IDs. The original Apple drive
used ID 0, and the computer always uses 7. If the drive was replaced,
it may have a different ID. I always use 6 for CD-ROMs (for other
reasons) and it usually works well with older Macs too.
The operating systems available for it are:
System 6.0.8, it can be downloaded, but needs a working Macintosh with
a floppy to make boot disks.
System 7.0 and 7.0.1 same as system 6.0.8, but better. You also need
the two "tuner" disks to upgrade it.
System 7.5 That's a difficult question. It really needs 10m RAM and a
larger hard drive for it. 7.5. or 7.5.1 had problems, 7.5.3 had less
problems, 7.5.5 had more. You can download 7.5.1 and upgrades for free,
but not 7.5.3 or 7.5.5 already upgraded.
There were a few 7.5 CD's made, they were specific to the machines that
they came with, and may or may not work on your machine.
As someone else said, 7.6 will be a pig on it and should not be used.
If you do decide to try it, don't use it without the 7.6.1 upgrade.
7.1 is not available for download. It contains some software Apple
licensed and did not own, and therefore can not be legally distributed
over the Internet.
> If I want to pick up some old games, what specifics should I look for?
> Am I wrong in assuming that anything on a floppy will run?
Yes. most will run but not all. There are issues with screen resolution,
number of colors, 32 bit addressing, etc.
> Are there any other upgrades I should look into doing? I just want
> this machine to run at it's top performance for old time's sake.
An Apple IIe card?
An Ethernet card?
CD-ROM?
External hard drive?
A printer?
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm.RemoveThis@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: May 28, 2005 Posts: 1096
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:24:02 -0500, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote
(in article <slrnfs2hch.gck.gsm.RemoveThis@cable.mendelson.com>):
> Jamisu wrote:
>> I checked out the info on
>> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112185,
>> and I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer.
>>
>> My system has 4MB of RAM. What exactly would I be looking for to
>> upgrade it?
>
> Here's a better page about it.
>
> Since it has 4m of RAM on the motherboard, it can be upgraded to 10 meg
> maximum by adding an 8 MEG 72 pin SIMM.
Errm... wouldn't that be _two_ 4 MB _30_ pin SIMMs? IIRC, the LC III had a
single 72 pin SIMM slot, the LC II had two 30 pin slots. I think.
> Yes, that's 12 meg, but it can not
> address the last 2m, so they sit empty. You have to enable 32 bit addressing
> to access RAM over 8m.
Yep.
>
> Check the size of the VRAM SIMM. If you have 256k you are more limited in
> resolutions provided by the on board video.
Yep.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 532
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:06 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 19, 2008 Posts: 637
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:11 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 19, 2008 Posts: 637
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:10 am
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Dec 25, 2007 Posts: 70
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-02-24 00:56:59 -0800, Jamisu <james.skow.RemoveThis@gmail.com> said:
> I checked out the info on
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112185,
> and I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer.
>
> My system has 4MB of RAM. What exactly would I be looking for to
> upgrade it?
If you want to upgrade that could prove difficult and maybe not worth
it, cause you could get a used G3 iMac.
>
> I see that the hard drive is SCSI. What's the biggest hard drive this
> will support?
Off the top of my head I would say 4 GB, but those drives are hard to
find. Those were the top of the line back in the day.
>
> Installed on it now is system 7.0.1, but is capable of running 7.6.1.
> When I checked out ebay, I found that 7.6.1 is only available on CD.
> What model CD drive would be compatible with the LC II? I have an old
> AppleCD 300e Plus, but it doesn't have the right type of connector on
> the back.
You just need a 25 pin to 50 pin cable
>
> If I want to pick up some old games, what specifics should I look for?
> Am I wrong in assuming that anything on a floppy will run?
Shanghai is Cool.
>
> Are there any other upgrades I should look into doing? I just want
> this machine to run at it's top performance for old time's sake.
hmm...
--
Adobe - Preventing the case-sensitive revolution everyday >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Nov 03, 2007 Posts: 122
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lewis wrote:
> 7.6.1 has decent Internet options as well.
>
> I think you can download 7.6.1 from Apple now, or is it only 7.5?
You can download 7.5 (it might actually be 7.5.1, I don't remember)
install disks. 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 are upgrades only. The 7.6 to 7.6.1
upgrade can be downloaded, but not the 7.6 or 7.6.1 install disk
images.
7.6 was only released on CD-ROM, but the CD has 1.4m floppy images
on it. There are 19 of them, plus 2 disk tools (PPC and 68x00 versions).
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm.DeleteThis@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 2705
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm.RemoveThis@mendelson.com> wrote:
> You can download 7.5 (it might actually be 7.5.1, I don't remember)
> install disks. 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 are upgrades only.
The main download is actually 7.5.3, and I agree that the OP is best off
going to 7.5.5 or 7.6.1.
--
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts
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<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Jul 14, 2003 Posts: 1142
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnfs3ada.l55.gsm DeleteThis @cable.mendelson.com>, Geoffrey S.
Mendelson <gsm DeleteThis @mendelson.com> wrote:
> 7.6 was only released on CD-ROM, but the CD has 1.4m floppy images
> on it. There are 19 of them, plus 2 disk tools (PPC and 68x00 versions).
the cd is a full installer (not floppy images), just like other system
releases. >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Nov 03, 2007 Posts: 122
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I wrote:
>> 7.6 was only released on CD-ROM, but the CD has 1.4m floppy images
>> on it. There are 19 of them, plus 2 disk tools (PPC and 68x00 versions).
nospam wrote:
> the cd is a full installer (not floppy images), just like other system
> releases.
Yes it does, but if you look carefully, you find that the installer mounts
the floppy images and uses them to install. So while you can install from
the CD without floppies, you can also use diskcopy to make real floppies
and install using them on computers without a CD-ROM drive.
The System 7.5 CD I have does not have floppy images, it has files
that are read by a program called "Apple Backup". You can't
do an installation from it, the so called install process is a restore
of a pre-built system.
System 8.0 and later installers read files directly from the CD. There
are no floppy images on the CD.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm DeleteThis @mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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Since: Jul 14, 2003 Posts: 1142
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnfs3hn2.o2m.gsm.RemoveThis@cable.mendelson.com>, Geoffrey S.
Mendelson <gsm.RemoveThis@mendelson.com> wrote:
> > the cd is a full installer (not floppy images), just like other system
> > releases.
>
> Yes it does, but if you look carefully, you find that the installer mounts
> the floppy images and uses them to install. So while you can install from
> the CD without floppies, you can also use diskcopy to make real floppies
> and install using them on computers without a CD-ROM drive.
maybe there are different versions of the cd, but the cd i have doesn't
work that way. >> Stay informed about: I just inherited a Macintosh LC II |
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